Automated Pilots

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MMattyK
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Re: Automated Pilots

Post by MMattyK » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:15 pm

Good evening all :)
As a single pilot airline for the majority of it's time (Brussels Busy Jet), I have to say I'm not too keen on this idea. I have random failures on the flights I fly, and real weather, and I'd like to know if these attributes would be carried over into these 'automated pilots' you are talking about.
With the new degradation of aircraft and extra maintenance costs/parking costs, it makes it quite difficult as an airline with lots of hard earned aircraft to make a profit, but I don't think this is the way to go.
It doesn't look like airlines money in the bank isn't earning any interest either, which with all these other financial additions having been made recently, surely that would also have to be addressed?
The hours limit might be a good way forward, but perhaps a passenger miles/cargo miles would also be a good limiter, but I have to confess that I'm still not keen.
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wings138
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Re: Automated Pilots

Post by wings138 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:49 pm

MMattyK wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:15 pm
Good evening all :)
As a single pilot airline for the majority of it's time (Brussels Busy Jet), I have to say I'm not too keen on this idea. I have random failures on the flights I fly, and real weather, and I'd like to know if these attributes would be carried over into these 'automated pilots' you are talking about.
With the new degradation of aircraft and extra maintenance costs/parking costs, it makes it quite difficult as an airline with lots of hard earned aircraft to make a profit, but I don't think this is the way to go.
I would think this would be optional as in if you don't want the autopilots then you don't have to have them. I don't see a way that they could be setup to do random events like you do in your flights.

I think it would be a case where you don't have pilots to fly your routes that you could hire these autopilots to fly your aircraft. There would still be ware and tear on those aircraft so you will have to watch maintenance, and I'm sure landing fees and parking fees would all still apply.

Anyway, at least we are moving forward in this project as far as talking about it.
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MMattyK
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Re: Automated Pilots

Post by MMattyK » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:06 pm

The point being, would these automated pilots have to go through a training regime to build their hours up to fly a particular aircraft, would they be 'perfect' pilots and not incur any penalties or crashes as actual pilots do, will the flights have a pre-selected chance of an in-flight failure of some sort which the automated pilots will have to deal with, else someone could set up an airline, buy an aircraft or enough aircraft for the auto pilots to fly, make tons of cash and never have to deal with damage or crashes.
For my two penneth I think there should be a 'randomness' incorporated into these automated piloted flights, such that they do have to deal with emergencies, hence my thoughts regarding a training regime for them, with the more hours on type, the less chance of not being able to deal with emergencies.
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wings138
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Re: Automated Pilots

Post by wings138 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:29 am

MMattyK wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:06 pm
The point being, would these automated pilots have to go through a training regime to build their hours up to fly a particular aircraft, would they be 'perfect' pilots and not incur any penalties or crashes as actual pilots do, will the flights have a pre-selected chance of an in-flight failure of some sort which the automated pilots will have to deal with, else someone could set up an airline, buy an aircraft or enough aircraft for the auto pilots to fly, make tons of cash and never have to deal with damage or crashes.
For my two penneth I think there should be a 'randomness' incorporated into these automated piloted flights, such that they do have to deal with emergencies, hence my thoughts regarding a training regime for them, with the more hours on type, the less chance of not being able to deal with emergencies.
Not trying to advertise for Just Flight's Air Hauler 2, but that all describes actually what happens in that. You hire pilots, they have to be type rated for the aircraft they will fly, but with low experience, they can have hard landings, etc. so, I have to check almost daily for aircraft to be repaired, but they are limited to 8 hours, so if I want the aircraft to fly longer then I have to have two crew. As they get their hours, I they rank up and there is a skills list that I choose what they have added. So like softer landings, faster passenger boarding (yes it does real time boarding).
When I want to fly one the their routes, I choose it before they do it, then set the sim time to about 30 minutes before, gives me enough time to do my setup. Boarding starts automatically, when finished I can go and do my push back and take off. It gives me more time then I usually have to have.

Now do I think FSAirlines should be so complex? No, it is nice that a lot of new things are being added, but having random events and emergencies with autos would be a lot of extra, and for what we pay per year for this, I don't think it would be worth all the extra server load to add it.

So, my only answer is, if you want to do an airline here, you probably wont care much about the autos as they are basically going to be pilots to fly airplanes to earn money to pay the bills. If you really want the full experience with more realism with non player pilots then you will want to look into a program that does that, Air Hauler series is the only one that I know if that does that. Rex is suppose to eventually put out something, but being it's been many years and they are more worried about weather that not everyone uses, I don't that will come out.

Anyway, not to pick on you, just showing the options that are out there.
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CaptainPrecious
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Re: Automated Pilots

Post by CaptainPrecious » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:32 pm

Very good idea, my thoughts:

- AI Pilots must be somewhat expensive (maybe pilots salary times your multiplier)
- maybe even certain amounts of AI pilots should lower the multiplier
- you should lose "control" over the flights, like you would in real life. Hiring inexperienced pilots should for example lead to worse landings, more go-arounds, thus worse shape of the aircraft they're flying and greater fuel consumption
- AI pilots should also be able to crash. It may be a one in a million chance, but simply the possibility should be given. If you let others do your work, you can't control everything
- also the likelyhood of an AI crash should be related to the aircrafts maintanace
- they should be able to go on strike

These are just some ways to make it more inconvinient. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea a lot, but it shouldn't be an advantage only. It should just be clear that you're inviting risks and costs as well

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joefremont
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Re: Automated Pilots

Post by joefremont » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:24 pm

CaptainPrecious wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:32 pm
Very good idea, my thoughts:
There are some good ideas here, lets go into them.
- AI Pilots must be somewhat expensive (maybe pilots salary times your multiplier)
I figured the AI crew would need at least 10% or they would perform worse, and at less than 5% they would not show up.
- maybe even certain amounts of AI pilots should lower the multiplier
I had been thinking of that also, max multiplier less than the VA's normal but not higher than 10x.
- you should lose "control" over the flights, like you would in real life. Hiring inexperienced pilots should for example lead to worse landings, more go-arounds, thus worse shape of the aircraft they're flying and greater fuel consumption
- AI pilots should also be able to crash. It may be a one in a million chance, but simply the possibility should be given. If you let others do your work, you can't control everything
- also the likelyhood of an AI crash should be related to the aircrafts maintanace
Sure, inexperience or blow average pay and you get worse result, hard landings, wrong airports, higher fuel burn. maybe even crashes.
And not maintaining your aircraft would add to diversions or even crashes.
- they should be able to go on strike
Lets not go to far, trying to model Unions would be pretty hard, more likely they just don't show up for work or could even quit.

These are just some ways to make it more inconvinient. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea a lot, but it shouldn't be an advantage only. It should just be clear that you're inviting risks and costs as well
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CaptainPrecious
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Re: Automated Pilots

Post by CaptainPrecious » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:49 pm

Great! So it's gonna be done? :-)

wings138
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Re: Automated Pilots

Post by wings138 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:22 pm

All these sound like great ideas. First will you allow for more then 10 like the original idea? I think it would work better for large airlines that have several hubs.

Having different pay scales would be great, but like 5% and they might show up for work, 10% they will but can have some issues like being sick once in a while, and then like 15% and they always show up and perform.

Having different skill levels would work, so if you hire pilots with little experience, you could see more hard landings, longer flight times, and other things that would lower your reputation. Pilots with lots of experience you wouldn't see this as much and then hiring like an Ace Pilot they would have very few, or no incidences.

The hiring cost should be something, as hiring anyone always cost something, like training, type ratings etc.

If your going to do co-pilots as a separate hiring, then maybe allow them to be skilled up so that eventually they could start flying.

If you are not going to do skills, then I would suggest that treating the crew as one would be much easier to deal with.

Anyway, this is starting to sound great.
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