Range with Maximum Payload

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joefremont
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Range with Maximum Payload

Post by joefremont » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:46 am

One of our members, Tilo, contacted me suggesting we add 'Range with maximum payload' as one of the values we store for aircraft types. Currently the 'range' we store is for range with maximum normal fuel. I replied that I would be willing to add the column to the database and the reports if he (and others) were willing to collect the data. We have over 800 commercial aircraft in the database and I don't have the time to track them all down. So I have created a Google Spreadsheet for each commercial aircraft in our database and if anyone would like to help in this effort send me a message and I will send you a link to the sheet so you can add your edits.

Also as part of this maybe we could collect data on aircraft seating arrangements. Right now on the aircraft information page the system just uses the number of seats to try to figure out how to display the seating layout and often narrow body aircraft end up looking like a 747 because the AC holds around 200 pax and it has no way of knowing. So I am adding three more columns to this spreadsheet for “Layout First”, “Layout Bus” and “Layout Econ” for the seats in the aircrafts First, Business and Economy sections. The way it will work is each digit will be a group of seats separated by an isle, so 33 means three on the left and three on the right, 12 means one on the left and two on the right, 343 will be three on the left, four in the middle, three on the right. I can then use that to try to make the seating chart look more realistic.

So send me a message if your interested in helping with this and I will send you the link to the sheet.
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AdySmith
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Re: Range with Maximum Payload

Post by AdySmith » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:08 am

"Range" is dependant on so many variables, primarily wind.

Also varies with temperature and pressure so I fear all the work involved in this could be futile!

ADAM-007
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Re: Range with Maximum Payload

Post by ADAM-007 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:50 pm

I feel this needs to be amended massively.

I can run 853 Passengers 9600NM in an A380. I'm not sure that this is really that realistic lol.
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joefremont
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Re: Range with Maximum Payload

Post by joefremont » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:13 pm

ADAM-007 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:50 pm
I feel this needs to be amended massively.

I can run 853 Passengers 9600NM in an A380. I'm not sure that this is really that realistic lol.
The system can only have the most accurate real world data we can find. If your FS model allows your A380 to go 9600NM with a full payload then there is something wrong with your FS model.
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Robert Neumaier
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Re: Range with Maximum Payload

Post by Robert Neumaier » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:33 am

Hi,
as i am sometimes creating routes for the airline i am flying with, i sometimes need to know their maximum ranges, so i check this site for some hints, advice:

http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/index_en.php

and chose the aircraft.

that helped me a lot

Best greetings
Robert

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joefremont
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Re: Range with Maximum Payload

Post by joefremont » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:11 am

Robert Neumaier wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:33 am
Hi,
as i am sometimes creating routes for the airline i am flying with, i sometimes need to know their maximum ranges, so i check this site for some hints, advice:

http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/index_en.php

and chose the aircraft.

that helped me a lot

Best greetings
Robert
Interesting site, although it only shows one range for aircraft, probably max fuel but it does not say, so it does not show range max payload. I can see someone planning out there routes wanting to know how far can I send this plane without having to reduce payload. And I agree that there are many variables to max range like wind direction, wind speed, temperature and pressure and as a pilot I may not find this number useful but others might find it useful. Now I don't know how we would find those values out will all the many commercial aircraft we have in our database but that's why we are asking for volunteers.

So far this is an idea from one member, and I don't want to implement a feature only one person is interested in, I have too many other things on my todo list.
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ADAM-007
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Re: Range with Maximum Payload

Post by ADAM-007 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:09 am

joefremont wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:13 pm
ADAM-007 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:50 pm
I feel this needs to be amended massively.

I can run 853 Passengers 9600NM in an A380. I'm not sure that this is really that realistic lol.
The system can only have the most accurate real world data we can find. If your FS model allows your A380 to go 9600NM with a full payload then there is something wrong with your FS model.
Thanks for the reply Joe, I've investigated this and found that the weight seems wrong in the config which must be how everyone here is doing it.

Could we not use the database to limit PAX on flights of this range?

Excuse my ignorance to this I just think its important to stop certain what i'd almost call exploits to make mega cash and smash the top spots of the statistics.
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joefremont
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Re: Range with Maximum Payload

Post by joefremont » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:44 pm

As has mentioned there are many variables involved. I do plan on adding some code to the client to check that the cargo is properly loaded but there is also the possibility the pilot plans on diverting to refuel (Another thing I hope to make easier in a future client) so just blocking it is just too difficult to do.

When we find ways that pilots are exploiting the system we try to plug those holes but ultimately they are just fooling themselves.
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joefremont
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Re: Range with Maximum Payload

Post by joefremont » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:11 am

Since nobody has replied to this I assume there is not much interest in this idea and I will abandon the idea.
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joefremont
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Re: Range with Maximum Payload

Post by joefremont » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:22 am

Just a note;

I recently updated the range on the A330-200F. A while ago a pilot pointed out to me an airbus document that showed the range with max fuel at around 4000 nm while the A300-200 (passenger model) had a range of 7.250 nm. Now the two AC had the same engines, same fuel capacity and similar weight (The F was lighter) and the same aerodynamics. So why the F had a shorter range could not be explained, maybe it had to so with how far the crew could flight without a backup crew, but it I could not explain it. Since we are now using range/fuel cap as a way to detect who is cheating with fuel it was causing a lot of false positives and I updated the range of the F to match the passenger models.
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