Leased aircraft Registration Codes changing ...

tall_guy_pete · Post by **tall_guy_pete** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:00 pm

Hi all,

I am unsure on this but I think other airlines when leasing aircraft from another airline; they can change the registration code.

I don't think this should be allowed. I think the aircraft registration of the aircraft should stay the same that the owner gave it, i.e. not allow the airline who has leased it to be able to change the aircraft registration code.

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:19 pm

Yes, you are right. They can do that. I also agree with you that it should be prevented. It's a headache to change them back to what it was before when the aircrafts are returned for all of us who want to keep offline track of our fleet.

I second your suggestion.

Post by **Safari Air** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:28 pm

i agree too. It's a pain when the reg. is changed

Xolon · Post by **Xolon** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:26 pm

although i'm one of those B*st*rds who did change a few a/c registrations, i also agree.

I did stop doing it since this week, unfortunatly i don't remember the origin regs anymore

Post by **joefremont** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:34 am

I will fourth this one, renters should not be able to re-register aircraft.

avalonceo · Post by **avalonceo** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:57 pm

I fifth as the only reg's i have changed are aircraft I own, or have an agreement in place to own.

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:31 pm

I have no problem with regs being changed. It takes me an extra 5 minutes when im doing some upkeep to switch them back (and delete pictures)

I say let a leasing airline have the freedom to do that. As far as i know, in the real world regs change when you lease an a/c, although I am not sure 100% about this.

CAPFlyer · Post by **CAPFlyer** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:13 am

No they don't. Registration always stays the same. Liveries may change, but aircraft on lease (whether short-term or long-term) are registered by the owner of the aircraft, not the operator.

tall_guy_pete · Post by **tall_guy_pete** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:34 am

Is it possible to amend this in the furture then konny? It would be brilliant if it is.

thanks for the comments guys; justin .. google it .. it does come up

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:35 am

CAPFlyer wrote:No they don't. Registration always stays the same. Liveries may change, but aircraft on lease (whether short-term or long-term) are registered by the owner of the aircraft, not the operator.

Documentation for that? Is this only for domestic leases, or foreign leases as well?

CAPFlyer · Post by **CAPFlyer** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:09 am

This is for all leases Justin.

Many countries also have regulations that are very explicit in that they state that an aircraft not owned by a company within their borders cannot be operated with the registration of that country (Saudi Arabia is a perfect example, aircraft sold to foreign companies must have the Saudi registration removed before the sale of the aircraft is complete. A representative of the company must provide PHOTOGRAPHIC evidence in addition to a sworn statement that the registration was removed before they allowed control of the aircraft to be turned over to the new owners).

Here are some pictures of leased aircraft painted in their operator's colors but owned by a foreign company -

EI-CHH, formerly of Frontier Airlines.

N866MX, leased to Mexicana by GE Leasing. (The entire Mexicana A319 fleet is leased, see here)

PH-HZI, one of several aircraft leased from Transavia by Sun Country during the peak US tourist season (which is opposite of the European peak).

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:31 am

Alright, if that's the way it occurs, I suppose we should do it as well. Saves me 5 minutes.

vaccaro · Post by **vaccaro** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:21 am

I think every country has their rule about this.
I am not an expert but I have noticed that all 3 a/c (and all leased) of IzAir had US registrations (TC-IZM (cn 2404) Ex N809BR, TC-IZH (cn 2452) Ex N812BR and TC-IZR (cn 2414) Ex N810BR) while when they leased their a/c to Pegasus (another Turkish carrier) they didn't change the registrations as both companies are Turkish.

CAPFlyer · Post by **CAPFlyer** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:10 pm

If the registration was changed, the aircraft were leased from a Turkish company (or one setup to handle the aircraft on behalf of the leasing company). The point is, the registration is linked to the country where the ownership resides. If the aircraft was being leased from a US company, it would still have a US registration because the US rules state that all aircraft owned by US companies must have US registrations.

Also, the 3 A319s of IzAir are formerly of Independence Air, and were purchased by IzAir (former N809BR, N810BR, & N812BR). They also have an order in for 3 CRJ-900s + 5 CRJ-900s that are convertible to C-series aircraft, and an order for 2 DHC-8Q-400s.

I wish I could show you the page that shows all this, but Aerotransport.org is a subscription service so you won't see the information that shows the aircraft to be owned instead of leased as it's only available to people with certain subcription levels. You will see the orders and the aircraft existing though -

http://www.aerotransport.org/php/go.php ... 7290&luck=

vaccaro · Post by **vaccaro** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:28 pm

Yes you are right those 3 a/c were ex Independence Air. What I have been told by Izair management they are leased (but I don't know if the leasing company is Turkish).
As told before, I am not an expert on this subject. Besides I am still using 2 Wardair a/c with their registrations without any problems.

off topic
Last time when I visited them, they told me that they would get 2x A320 (maybe 321 not sure) at first so that they can operate by themselves. According Turkish laws airlines has to have at least 5 a/c in their fleet.
The DH8D was (it still is) a wise choice (they have tested it before getting the A319's) but I don't know why they have postponed or cancelled their purchase.
CRJ's instead (or any a/c with engines mounted on fuselage) would spoil the beauty of their color scheme

Cheers,