A Proposal to prevent accusations of "cheating"

IslandBum · Post by **IslandBum** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:22 pm

It seems that the "cheating" accusations have risen recently causing unrest in the good folks who
use Flynet.

I have a very simple proposal that would eliminate some of the problems.
Again I have proposed something similar in the past, but we were a much smaller and less diverse
community then , prehaps its time to revisit it.

Very simply - Konny or Kurt could build an addition to the Client that looks at the schedule and actual
flight time of 'pilots' and insitute a crew duty program.

using something along the lines of FAR121 regulations ALL pilots in Flynet wold be limited to a Flight Duty Period
of 8 hours (either actual OR compressed based on the schedule set up by the virtual airline) for "domestic" operations
and 12 hours for "International" operations (This would assume that long range international flights would operate with
a "heavy" or three man crew.) ANy pilot flying 8 hours in any given 24hr period would be required to have a minimum
of 9 hours rest after completion of their assigned trip. A pilot flying 12 hours scheduled flying would be required to take
16 hours rest - This would immeadiatly remove accusations of "flying 15 hours a day" , and would bring an added
detail of realism. For those wishing to operate a round robin flight (say LHR-JFK-LHR) would require another company
pilot in New York to be the "slip crew" to operate the second leg. The nuts and bolts of programming Im not that
familar with but it would seem to be a simple thing to intergrate into the system - once a pilot terminated the client
it would look at the amount of time flown (again this would be "real time" in other words if you flew an eight hour
flight at x8 compression it would still consider it 8 hours of "duty") and if the the pilot has flown eight hours in the last 24hour it would "turn him off" until the rest period is met. As a addendum to this - if apilot had already flown 6 hours in the past 24 hours and he or she tried to fly atrip scheduled for 2 hours and 30minutes the client would automatically
refuse the flight.

You guys want realism ,and an even playing field, here it is...do with it what you wish

Leif

FsNovice · Post by **FsNovice** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:37 pm

I like this idea, would another good layer of realism to the system. I second it

avalonceo · Post by **avalonceo** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:37 pm

I think it could be given a go. As for fuel, perhaps a database that keeps track of the average "block fuel" used, that way if it abnormally low a flag could be sent to admins. Just another idea.

IslandBum · Post by **IslandBum** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:54 pm

Andrew

I think your block fuel idea is what Konny and the Mods are thinking about

?Konny and the Mods?? sounds like a 60s group to me

Didnt they open for The Who?

Leif (I know, Ill get my hat)

tall_guy_pete · Post by **tall_guy_pete** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:24 am

See last post as changed mind on this ....

avalonceo · Post by **avalonceo** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:50 am

IslandBum wrote:Andrew

I think your block fuel idea is what Konny and the Mods are thinking about

?Konny and the Mods?? sounds like a 60s group to me

Didnt they open for The Who?

Leif (I know, Ill get my hat)

Oh, i can play Bass!!!

Draco Returns · Post by **Draco Returns** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:58 am

A pilot flying 12 hours scheduled flying would be required to take
16 hours rest - This would immeadiatly remove accusations of "flying 15 hours a day" , and would bring an added
detail of realism.

So how would that affect people flying across the Pacific? West Coast USA to New Zealand and Australia requires a flight of 13 hours from LAX to Auckland NZ and 14.5 hours from LAX to Sydney.

So yea according to Qantas you can fly 15 hour flights only differance between flightsim and real world is you dont have a Crew or co-pilot. Which means your already doing the work of two or more people already.

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:17 am

Indeed, I have the same question. Flying from Athens to LA could take 15 hours. How could this flight be completed? Intermediate stops maybe? I would like a suggestion here by the official guys as I am not sure I have understood this point in the original message of this thread.

IslandBum · Post by **IslandBum** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:23 pm

I am fully aware of how "heavy crews" work - there are two crews one resting one flying on the very long range flights operated in the real world - thats why the likes of the 340 and 747 400 and 777 have provisions for crew bunks - you will also find that said crews have at least 24 hours rest when they complete their flights - The idea was to offer a limit to level the playing field with Flynet to make it more realistic - if you were to operate a flight over 12 hours then you would be considered as using a "heavy crew" and your crew costs doubled and 24 hours required at the end of the flight - Personally it bothers me and my motley crew very little as we do not compete with other airlines within Flynet - we use it to add purpose to what we do - but there seems to be some dissension amongst the ranks at present here and I was offering a possible solution from someone who , as CAPFlyer puts it works "inside the fence"

Leif

Post by **oge978** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:31 pm

Hmmm , good idea but will be hard to implement , also we must work on it hardly to find the best times & solution ...

Anyway I will work on it for VA Integration pages , it can be a test bed for this implementation and idea

What I thought ;

- When pilot enters the booking page ( VA Integration ) code checks his last flights and calculates the total flight time based on last 24 hours ( or current day )
- If flight time is less than the maximum hour we set booking system goes on and allows pilot to book a flight
- If flight time is over the maximum booking system rejects the request and informs the pilot
- If flight time is near the maximum system checks the free amount of time and displays only flights which meets the criteria of maximum ( done + current booking <= maximum )

Hope this helps this idea to go on ...

Writing is the easy part , hard part is the correct coding and this takes time

So do not expect this implement very soon on VA Integration Project .

Safe flights

IslandBum · Post by **IslandBum** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:59 pm

Cheers Fatih

When you get something that works my guys would be happy to give a whirl for you - just shoot it to us and we will have a go

BTW - you never told me -- WHAT SIZE??????

Leif

Post by **oge978** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:19 pm

Oppsss ... I thought I said

But anyway here it is ... XL ( Extra Large ) I do not know the US Conversion of this size but just think of a man 1.74 cm tall and 90 kg

For the booking system enhancement ;

I will try to transfer my thoughts to codes starting from this night and the weekend will be spent for this .

Safe flights ,

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:26 pm

Useful suggestion but before thinking like "hey this guy is cheating" we should think twice. Sometimes what seems like cheating from our point of view is fairplay from another percpective. Talking individualy about time compression, the rules of FlyNet as they are listed in the website dictate no restiction at all. So, yes, for someone who wishes to fly in a realistic way at 1x may seem like cheating seeing another guy flying easily and quickly a trans-atlantic flight but for the other one who simply reads the rules, there is nothing wrong on this. My point is just to be more careful about loud expressions and also, for the staff, to make things clear beyond misconceptions.
Another issue for potential disputes about "cheating" may occur on the aircraft models we use. Virtual aircrafts are not real ones. They may have different characteristics and even unrealistic ones. Yes, I am talking about fuel consumption. Restricting, the used models to those who are considered adequate ones like the defaults, IFDG, POSKY, PMDG etc. is not enough for this. You would be surprised if you knew how unrealisticaly low fuel consumption can the FS2004 default B744 have if flown properly. On the other hand, who could dictate not to use the default model?

For sure there is definite cheating when someone slews the aircraft or modifies the model but unfortunately there are even more vague areas.

My suggestion is to try to keep it cool. We are a community sharing the same interest and can help each other to become better in what we like as well to have a better time. It is sad to have people involved into "painful" diputes. No matter how realisticaly we want to see it, it's only a game, a virtual hobby, a virtual reality. Not real life.

I've no intention to play the mentor to anyone, nor to direct anyone. I am just expressing my opinion.

Peace men.

Post by **joefremont** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:01 pm

I don't want to be the only one against this but there are times that I would be inviolation of this rule. I have flown the LAX, auckland, Sydney, LAX route at x16, and then done a couple more flights that same physical day. Granted thats more than 24 hours of flying time and if I could not do that I would be tempted to start inventing phantom pilots to fly more hours with.

But I did not use slewing, unlimited fuel or mess with the fuel flow scalar that would really upset the economics, those are the things that I consider cheating.

What offends me more are ppl who will start those long flights at 1x and go to sleep or go to work and leave there cockpits unattended for hours at a time, but thats a rant for a different thread.

Post by **oge978** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:50 pm

For my side adding the "pilot daily flight hour control" will only add more realism , will not provide a cheating defense ...

I'm not %100 sure but up to my knowledge if you book a 12 hour flight and fly it with 16x FlyNET Client will record the actual flight time you spend at sim ( 12 Hours / 16 = Client Record ) , not the full flight time . ( Not sure as I said , I had to check this )

Anyway , my code will be selectable by CEO . This means that default FlyNET Booking system will be available on VA Integration , this addition will be optional

Safe flights ,