Briefing Document ZFW and Client ZFW not matching

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Rhygorian
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Briefing Document ZFW and Client ZFW not matching

Post by Rhygorian » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:11 pm

Found this rather odd that my booking documentation from the website would have a different ZFW than the Client was showing for the flight. Not certain if this is intended but it's rather misleading / confusing as, those not paying attention to detail, will be loading their aircraft in the sim differently than the booking. Reference picture is attached.

Edit: Thanks for reminding me Cat! XP-11 | Flight Factor 767-300ER | Win10 | Client v2.3.3

Kind Regards,
Clifford DeVaul - SOA135
Solaris Virtual Airlines
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Last edited by Rhygorian on Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cat
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Re: Briefing Document ZFW and Client ZFW not matching

Post by Cat » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:57 pm

I tried to replicate the issue and could not. Mine match up within a pound. Very odd.

FSX Steam / win10 / latest client

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Rhygorian
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Re: Briefing Document ZFW and Client ZFW not matching

Post by Rhygorian » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:39 pm

I just attempted to duplicate this issue with the A319 but was not able to; however when I used another B767-300ER I was able to get the same result. Documentation states one ZFW while the Client still states MZFW instead.
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joefremont
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Re: Briefing Document ZFW and Client ZFW not matching

Post by joefremont » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:09 pm

I may be wrong but what I think is happening is that briefing document is not taking into account the weight of the packages loaded onto the aircraft.

When the flight was originally booked, based on the allowed amount of generic cargo, the ZFW was below the MZFW for the aircraft, but when the packages were loaded on and the flight started the generic cargo was reduced to maintain the MZFW.

The maximum allowed generic cargo is calculated based on the populations of the two airports, distance between then, country economics and how much cargo has recently traveled between those ports, aircraft size is not a factor. So that may be why the 767-300ER did not get a full load of cargo while an A319 or a DC-3 would get full cargo.

I will try to update the briefing document to include packages when showing cargo amounts.
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Rhygorian
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Re: Briefing Document ZFW and Client ZFW not matching

Post by Rhygorian » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:40 am

Thanks for the response Joe, and I believe you are on the correct line of thought there as the ZFW was MZFW before loading packages, but once the packages were loaded the ZFW was reduced as shown in the screenshots. However, shouldn't the Client still reflect that reduced ZFW or is the ZFW on the client the MZFW and mislabeled? I will attempt to reproduce this with other aircraft and package loading as I don't think the Client is supposed to indicate a differing ZFW regardless of aircraft type or load.
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joefremont
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Re: Briefing Document ZFW and Client ZFW not matching

Post by joefremont » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:09 am

Remember that ZFW is the weight of the aircraft without fuel, but with payload. You can see in your screen shot the briefing document has 42,805 lb of cargo but in the client there is 43,715 lb of cargo, 910 lb more. the exact difference between the ZFW in the client and brief.

ZFW = Current zero fuel weight
MZFW = Maximum zero fuel weight.
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Rhygorian
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Re: Briefing Document ZFW and Client ZFW not matching

Post by Rhygorian » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:22 pm

Thank you for the explanation of ZFW and MZFW, but my original issue here is that I have two sources giving differing values for Zero Fuel Weight. After rereading this issue I believe it is because the remaining available cargo space (after package loading) is auto filled with "standard cargo" by the Client. ZFW is ZFW and any value assigned to it should match no matter if it is on the Client or Briefing Documentation - but in the examples I've shown there is a difference in the two without any user input or changes. (I'm well aware of their definitions - it's the numerical value they are assigned that I'm concerned with)

IF the Client is in fact auto filling the available space with standard cargo, then the Briefing Documentation should indicate the same OR the Client should indicate what the Briefing Documentation shows, with an option to add Standard Cargo as desired by the pilot. The latter would be more in line with real world operations as it is ultimately the pilot (or user in our case) that signs for any changes made on the Ramp (in the Client for us).
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Cat
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Re: Briefing Document ZFW and Client ZFW not matching

Post by Cat » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:21 pm

valid points sir and I have asked for a cargo loading tab in the client for a long time. It used to be there was no way to get down to MLW as the rampers would stuff the plane so full you could only reject enough cargo to make max takeoff weight. In some planes, especially GA and regionals, there was not enough "headroom" at MZFW to make MLW and still have enough fuel on board to meet regulations (min reserves for go around, diverts, etc.).

Joe has addressed that issue to some point by calculating in "reserve fuel" number, but a generic cargo tab still would be nice in the client. If you click the passenger tab to get down to MTOW, it will kick out two passengers when you only need to lose just over the weight of one.

The system also does not recognize the difference between max ramp weight and max takeoff weight. On many occasions, (in the real world) being a few hundred overweight on the MTOW would be burned off in pre take off taxi easily and not only allowed but required to handle the sometimes long delays when one is #6 or #7 in line at a major airport. I doubt there are many in the sim world that have their traffic program cranked so high they are taking 20 min departure delays waiting in line :shock:

I hear these days (I have not flown rl in a decade), they use gate holds now instead of stacking them up burning fuel waiting for takeoff. So sometimes when folks flying as passengers wonder what the pilot is waiting for, for crying out loud, let's Go! They are waiting for their "reserved spot" in the takeoff timeline set by ATC and their flight plan. This of course varies with weather and other factors but I'm getting off topic, sorry. 8)
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