My fuel disappeared

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flugkapitan
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My fuel disappeared

Post by flugkapitan » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:55 am

Greetings.

Last night I flew a B727-200 Adv from KSEA - KGTF when I landed I had 5886lbs of fuel on board. Today prior to booking a flight KGTF - KRAP I checked the B727 and it had the 5886lbs. I booked the flight in that aircraft and now the aircraft info states there is 0 lbs of fuel on board.

What happened to my juice?

Scott
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"...now let's get this thing on the hump - we've got some flyin' to do!" ~ Major Kong

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joefremont
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Re: My fuel disappeared

Post by joefremont » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:43 pm

Hi Scott, I'm investigating this.
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joefremont
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Re: My fuel disappeared

Post by joefremont » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:30 pm

On another subject, I see in one of your flight comments you got dinged with the new low altitude penalty when being directed by ATC. The penalty was devised to be something more relevant to replace the useless parking brake penalty. It goes into effect when you are below 500 ft ALG and more than 5 nm from either your destination or arrival airport. The rule also dings pilots who never go above 1000 ft ALG at some point in the flight for flights less than 20 nm in length, but that does not apply in this case.

This was based on FAA rules that say you must be above 500 ft when flying over non populated areas. In this case, based on the flight data you were probably flying over or near Mount Cecelia, a 6142 ft peak in Montana that is about 24 nm from the airport you landed at.

I am not quite sure how to modify this to prevent what penalty, ATC should not have been routing you so close to a mountain top (but they did). Much of the reason for this was to catch pilots who 'fly' from one airport to another without or just barely leaving the ground, but this does not apply in your case. I could increase the 5 nm radiuses but in this case it would have to be so large to make the whole thing meaningless.

I think the best thing to do in unusual cases like this is too press the 'Flight Needs Review' button in the websites flight report page and we will remove the penalty.
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flugkapitan
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Re: My fuel disappeared

Post by flugkapitan » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:25 pm

Hi Joe,

Thanks to looking into the nicking of my fuel. At least it wasn't from a fully tanked plane :lol:

Regarding the low altitude penalty (I sent you a message on this), I fully understand why it was implemented. The default FSX ATC certainly does fumble the ball at times. Hopefully it won't be much of a problem, but last night as I was flying from KGTF - KRAP, ATC vectored me on a downwind for the ILS 32 approach on the west side of KRAP (where the high terrain is) and wanted me to descend lower than the minimum altitude proscribed for the initial approach segment. I canceled IFR and gave myself vectors to final. I could see that if I had followed ATC instructions I'd probably have busted the 500' rule again.

Cheers,
Scott
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"...now let's get this thing on the hump - we've got some flyin' to do!" ~ Major Kong

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joefremont
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Re: My fuel disappeared

Post by joefremont » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:48 pm

I have tried several times to figure out what ATC is telling the pilot to do, but the interfaces we use to communicate with FS don't expose that (I was investigating if it was possible to see if someone landed at a runway they were not given permission to land on). I am more concerned if ATC is directing you into the mountain rather than just too close to it. Again as admins we don't have a problem removing penalties when you ask for flights to be reviewed.

We could put a timer on the low altitude penalty, say 30 seconds under 500' before the penalty is triggered, that would at least take care of the occasional mountain ridge, but wonder if the FAA inspectors would be so lenient :wink:
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flugkapitan
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Re: My fuel disappeared

Post by flugkapitan » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:11 pm

Hi Joe,

I think the timer would be a good idea. Let's just hope the FAA Inspectors are having a good day when you propose it :lol:

I haven't been flying in mountainous regions lately until now, so I guess we'll see if it is going to be an issue or not. Perhaps Denver Center had a trainee at the scope?

Thanks for working with us in reviewing flights with the low altitude penalty if it should become necessary!

Cheers,
Scott
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"...now let's get this thing on the hump - we've got some flyin' to do!" ~ Major Kong

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