Fuelling problem with QualityWings RJ's

[DaveB]

Hi Chaps

This is a heads up for a snag I've found with fuelling on the payware QWRJ100 (though I've no doubt it applies to the others too).

The first 'live' flight I did, I have to admit I didn't notice any discrepancy.. that is, the clients report for tanked fuel. On the second flight, the previous flight report stated that 2025kg remained onboard.. this coincided with my calculation. However, having booked the flight and opened the client, the 'tanked fuel' showed as 1377kg.. a loss of 678kg.
I tanked up with 2300kg and got 3677kg (confirmed by a test fuel gauge).. 1377+2300. This figure should have been 2055+2300.

On landing, I had 1324kb fuel onboard. The flight report for this flight stated I started with 2025 and added 2300 (which should be correct) but of course, the client only showed me as having 1377kg tanked so the reported fuelburn for the flight is over by 678kg.

The next flight was EGCC-LFMN. The system reported 1324kg FOB (correct) but on opening the client, tanked fuel showed as 1165kg.. a loss of 159kg. I took an additional 4700kg for the flight and began with 1165+4700kg (not 1324+4700 as it should have been). Having landed at LFMN, I had 1226kg fuel remaining. Once more, the flight report showed I started with 1324kg.. took 4700kg and ended with 1226kg when in fact, the client reported 1165 and I took 4700.

The return flight started with 1226kg and I needed a further 3900. The detail was correct when the flight was booked but again, on opening the client, tanked fuel was reporting short at 1176 insteaad of 1226. Only a short loss this time (50kg) but a loss nontheless.

The next flight (EGSS-LSGG) listed 1225kg onboard (correct) but when the client was opened, tanked fuel reported 1176.. a loss this time of 49kg. I landed with 1415kg onboard. The flight report again reported I started with 1225 and took 3200 when the client offered and gave me 1176 plus 3200.

For the return flight (LSGG-EGSS), I kept the sim open and advanced the time while on the ground to coincide with that required for departure (a few mins before due to a long taxi out). I'd landed with 1415kg onboard.. the flight report for the return showed I had 1415kg onboard and this time, the client saw 1415kg onboard.

The next 5 flights after LSGG-EGSS all showed correct both on the system and with the client at refuelling.

Unfortunately, this has just gone to pot. Having done EGSS-LFRB (all fuel correct).. I took a different flight out of LFRB to EGBB which required the sim time to be retarded to match the BHX flight. The system reported 2099kg onboard (correct) but the client reported 2015kg tanked. I've landed at BHX with 1761kg onboard and the flight report shows I started with 2099kg, took 2550kg and landed with 1761 giving a false burn for the flight as the client only gave me 2015kg as tanked.

Difficult to say where the issue is happening exactly but I'm certain it's the model. It comes with it's own fuel/loading utility called 'Dispatcher' which, if used.. reports the correct fuel 'in sim'.. that is, in the aircrafts own fuel gauges on the PED. If you fuel anywhere else, fuel/payload from within the sim for example.. you will have the fuel you've loaded but the onboard fuel gauges report differently. I was surprised the client was able to fuel it to be honest but it will and after a day of so-so fuelling.. it finally came full circle and the client reported what was tanked in accordance with the database.. this despite changing aircraft. What the model doesn't appear to like is having the time retarded with the sim open. You can move it forward without penalty but not backward. I've closed the sim down after landing at BXH and hope that because I've done so, the client will report the correct (tanked) fuel for my next flight out.

I'm not sure what FSA can do about it to be honest but I thought I'd highlight the issue

DaveB
CEO CBFS

[DaveB]

As a follow on to this.. the next flight (EGBB-EDDF) showed a reported 1761kg tanked but when taking fuel at the client, it reported 1690kg tanked. I took 3300kg for the flight giving a new total of 4990kg and landed at EDDF with a reported 1779 at arrival. This time, I kept the sim open (but paused) and booked the return.. EDDF-EGBB. This flight needed the sim to be advanced by 30mins so I did that.. unpaused the sim.. opened the client and there it showed 1779kg tanked. I added 2900kg for the return leaving 1838kg on arrival. If all things are equal.. the client will report the correct fuel for the next flight even though the sim has been closed. I should also be able to choose a different aircraft without penalty. We shall see!

EDIT: As anticipated, the client reported correct fuel tanked for the next flight.

ATB
DaveB
CEO CBFS

[MMattyK]

I've noticed similar symptoms, but in a different fashion... I noted the the reported fuel load in the QW RJ1H on the 2D MIP under read what was in the tanks by what I had put in the FMC as my reserve fuel, it was as if the reserve wasn't shown on the MIP. I think this is discussed in a roundabout way in the QW forum. I havent tried looking at the MIP without putting a reserve fuel ammount im the FMC but it could be what is causing the apparent fuel discrepency. Whatever the issue is, it is certainly not the client.

[DaveB]

Hi Mat

Thanks for confirming I'm not alone

No.. there's some clever stuff going on behind the scenes.. perhaps a bit TOO clever. I wondered if the readout on the PED gave useable fuel but having looked at the cfg, the tanks don't list any unuseable. I get the feeling that somehow, dispatcher and the model gauges are or can react badly with the client for some unknown reason. Whatever is going on with the model, the client should still give a correct 'tanked' amount in the flight information page and again on the 'Fly' page but if the circumstances aren't right.. it doesn't. Whatever you do, fuel reported in the PED differs from what is actually onboard. I've added an RKG fuelstat gauge to the panel so I can see exactly what I have.

I've noted a 'tanked' amount listed in the FMC (in pounds) and I'll have to check to see if this changes. I don't yet use the FMC for navigation.. just to control the PFD/MFD readout.

It's an odd one isn't it!!

ATB
DaveB
CEO CBFS

[MMattyK]

Hiya David

I found this in the FAQ in the user manual for QW RJ

The wing tank fuel quantity on the Primary Engine Display doesn’t match what I loaded.
The fuel quantity indication shows the fuel quantity in the wings minus the fuel quantity in the engine feed tanks. The fuel quantity of the engine feed tank gauges are on the overhead panel.

Hope this helps buddy

[DaveB]

Hi Mat

Well.. that solves one mystery and thanks for digging it out

It doesn't solve why the client can sometimes report incorrect fuel tanked on the flight information page though as this should be exactly the same as it was the last time the aircraft was used. You book a flight.. pick an aircraft and the data page shows fuel onboard. That amount should still be onboard when the client opens but as explained above, this often isn't the case. Oddly, the flight report will show what should have been there and not what the client shows as tanked and this above everything is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. It's nice to know now where the 'missing' fuel is with regard to the PED readout but it'd be nice to know why the client can't always report what should be there and the flight info page and subsequent refuelling/cargo page.

I've never known the client 'mis-report' like this before (other than known bugs but there aren't any of this type in the current client to my knowledge) so one has to presume that it's something to do with the QW RJ that's confusing the issue. I can't understand why 'tanked fuel' isn't always correct as this should be 'set in stone' from the previous flight.

Still.. once the QW RJ and the client are 'in sync'.. they appear to stay that way as long as you don't retard the sim time inbetween flights with the sim open. I must try and seek out the latest FSUIPC in case it's an older version adding to the problem. A friend had almost constant CTD's with the RJ until he changed to the latest FSUIPC version so I guess it's worth a try. Everything works as it should though apart from the aforementioned hassle with the client Can't wait for the 146's.. the RJ's have far too much glass up front!

ATB
DaveB
CEO CBFS