Problem with Staff & Flight Marked Cheat

[76Firebird]

To whomever is in charge of checking flights and problem reports: You need to have the administration contact me. I sent messages about the "cheat flight". No Response. I had a problem with a "NO Brake" at the end of a flight and sent a message. No Response. This non-communication on the part of FSA staff is getting ridiculous. I'm not one of the pilots who plays this as a "game" who fly direct to airports at 16x, can't fly real time or read a STAR/SID, flies offline, (can't handle real world procedures)....I fly by the numbers, PERIOD. I am a real world pilot who flies on online with friends. I know the shutdown procedures for my aircraft...and I did not fly w/zero fuel, or leave the break-off and end the flight, or park by fuel or have unlimited fuel checked in my MSFS. This cheat flight is total BS. In addition, I explained that in my private message in the help section in a nicer manner than I am now. I have had it with unresponsive staff members who do not have the stones to send a message explaining their decision or acknowledge a pilots message regarding a problem and sign their message.

I have a feeling which FSA staff member is handling this and his attitude with pilots and temperament is less than desirable, unhelpful and unresponsive. You know who you are and you have a poor attitude.

I would request that I be able to talk with the developer/administrator--Konny. I have found him always kind, responsive and without arrogance.

Chris Weisbender
BC North
BCN86

[alasizon]

Chris,

While I am not an official admin at FSA, I can assure you that the admins do their best to resolve issues. Sometimes a flight marked as cheat or a support request can take up to 48 hours to be answered based on the admin workload. Additionally, while I am not accusing you, you might be impartial and viewing the admin's actions as against you personally, each admin treats each user the same way and in no way benefits from the outcome of any support ticket or flight marked as a cheat. I believe I know which admin you believe is handling your case, however, all admins can view a support ticket or flight marked as cheat and step in at any time if they feel that the line of adminship is being stepped over. I suggest an email to konny@fsairlines.net rather than a public post as it can start flame wars.

Thanks,

Matt

[Quantum]

Chris,

All flights where fuel is logged incorrectly which results in a pilot/VA gaining advantage WILL have the fuel re-calulated and the flight WILL be marked as a cheat flight whether intentional or not.

With regards to removal of penalties incurred, the client is pretty reliable on reports and a penalty is usually down to pilot error. Just because you ask for a review does not guarantee a penalty will be removed and you are arrogant to expect it.

It is NOT possible for the admins to answer a question or respond to a flight review request. If you wish to ask a question, don't ask for a review, submit a ticket.

Your manner/attitude in the support ticket has been reported to the other admins/developers and a formal warning given to you via the support ticket.

And for the record, it was I who reviewed the flight. I also reviewed a flight by one of my pilots in very similar circumstances. I marked the flight as cheat as we gained advantage from the free fuel. My pilot had a scenery reload after landing but accepted it on the chin and certainly didn't resort to the behaviour that you are exhibiting. I review ALL flights in a similar manner and do not give or take any favouritism and will do the same for all future flights.

John

[alasizon]

Also, upon reviewing more of your flights it seems like pilot error is to blame for most of your penalties. Additionally, a "no brake" penalty can sometimes still be incurred if the sim is paused when you apply it as the client reads off of the sim when it is transmitting data, when the sim is paused, no data is sent.

[Brian Peace]

I think the problem here is that the client is not recording correctly for my pilot, and rather than try and resolve the issue the admins just continually mark the flights cheated and do nothing to resolve the real issue which is "client error" and not "pilot error". And, the responses that he has gotten in private reviews from the admins have been inflammatory and accusing. That's why he's at the boiling point.

It's been stated time and time again that the client sometimes records full tanks at the end of a flight EVEN WHEN THE PILOT MAKES SURE RIGHT AT CLIENT SHUTDOWN!!! that his fuel is correct....

thanks.

[76Firebird]

Alasizon, thank you for your suggestion. I have sent a message to Konny. And good advice about posting in the forum. Also, your critic of my flights is correct. Mostly landing lights. Which in the realworld I would not attend to until 10000-11000'. However, while in heavy traffic online following the checklist, somethings do get overlooked while flying the departure route. Most of the landing light errors are also at KSLC or other elevated airports. Wish I was perfect but I am not. However, the incident with the recent parking brakes/fuel "cheat" are not pilot error.

Once again, Quantum you attack me personally. You called me a child in private and arrogant in the forums. My response to you was direct and demanding. I expected nothing. However, I never attacked you personally but you have toward me. Furthermore, I have had other problems with the client and have been just fine with the penalities. . .as the client says, "TEST, TEST, TEST". At one time it was the brake being recorded as off and I was sure it was a client error. At that time I continued to check the problem at my end while the FSA staff was kind enought to forgive the parking break issue. My check found that my pedals were disengaging the brakes because I was tapping my foot on the pedals while I ended the client. And I reported my error to admin. I felt it only fair.

I've exlpained my recent barking brake issue (one incident) and the fuel cheat problem. Once again, you can not load fuel from MSFS when using the PMDG MD11. Fuel is loaded from the aircraft's FMS and internal fuel loading system. Also I checked the FS window that shows the percentage used during the flight. If fuel is added because one drives by a fuel pump you can see the percentage jump to 100%. I always check before I end a flight. And never park near a pump. Pilot error was not the cause of this fuel cheat. I was unable to responed by Flight Review Request because the flight was marked cheat and the request forum was not available. And as far as "taking it on the chin" well, I can take it with the best of them and have. But this flight was clearly not my fault. So your response is to take it like a man like your pilots do. Sure, I'll be glad to. I'll take it.

The formal warning...thank you for making that public. A formal warning is over the top. This is my first time responding in a demanding and direct manner because of the unresponsivness of the staff members who review the flights. My behavior is appropriate for the level of frustration trying to communicate in an "appropriate" manner and recieving no response from admin/staff. In addition, I did not attack any admin/staff member directly or by name nor did I use inappropriate language. May I suggest that if you require a curtious tone that you start by maintaining that level of curtious behavior when replying to a pilot's complant. And please stop repeating how fair and unbiased you are when reviewing flights. I never questioned, nor would I question, your integrity. My feeling is you and the admin/staff have integrity and a fine sense of fairness.

I am glad you finally identified yourself, your responses to me have been unsigned. I've always found your suggestion in the forum helpful and your explinations generous...especially to new members. It is regretable that we are at odds over this issue. Furthermore, I will take your suggestion on my "tone" when responding to admin/staff and respond in the manner you requested.
Chris W.
BC North
BCN86

[Quantum]

I think the problem here is that the client is not recording correctly for my pilot, and rather than try and resolve the issue the admins just continually mark the flights cheated and do nothing to resolve the real issue which is "client error" and not "pilot error". And, the responses that he has gotten in private reviews from the admins have been inflammatory and accusing. That's why he's at the boiling point.

It's been stated time and time again that the client sometimes records full tanks at the end of a flight EVEN WHEN THE PILOT MAKES SURE RIGHT AT CLIENT SHUTDOWN!!! that his fuel is correct....

thanks.

Brian,

By far the majority of fuel errors are caused either by the particular flight sim model being used which has known compatability issues working with the client or some other sim related event which interferes with the client gathering correct data from the sim. I do not think the developers at FSA will ever be able to make a client that will work with all sim models when the developers of the sim models do things 'differently' from the SDK. There are many threads in the forum warning of incompatabilities and if pilots insist on using these aircraft which have known problems then unfortunately for the time being is is user beware and accept the consequences of their use. There are many issues/exploits regarding the interaction of the client/sim that we are unable to work around and we have the best that we can work to so far. The issues/exploits are also different between the two sims. So, for now, until the dev's decide otherwise regarding how flights marked as cheat are dealt with, all flights will continue to be reviewed as they are now. We have added the take-off and landing fuel in an attempt to let pilots see where and when fuel gets added so that the pilots can try and understand what is happening in their sim. If it were an X-box game where everyone's game and hardware were the same then it would be an easier task to try and pinpoint the problems but when every pilot probably has a unique game installation it is an almost impossible task. We know PMDG causes problems so I would advise 'Don't use PMDG unless you are happy to accept whatever fuel state PMDG aircraft are telling the client'.

I have pushed for some time that all flights marked as cheat should automatically ground the pilot and the aircraft so that we can delete the flights and put the aircraft/pilot/fuel state back to where they were before the 'cheat' flight. This would stop people in their tracks and allow us to reset the status quo and all cheat flights would be eliminated but at the inconvenience/delay to pilots as they could be grounded for up to 48 hours or more until a flight was reviewed. It was thought that this would not be a good idea to implement.

Regards

John

[Brian Peace]

I understand your position, but we have two pilots that regularily fly on FSA with the PMDG MD11 and this is the first issue with fuel we've had. If it was an aircraft issue it would have happened every flight.

[alasizon]

After reviewing the flight in question(as best as I could without the complete raw figures), I see that the fuel consumption on the flight was lower than the average MD11 fuel consumption rate per hour. While I don't know how much lower it can be before the 'flight cheat' is triggered, that may be the cause of the problem.

[flightsimer]

average burn for the md11 on a 1800nm flight is around 17k kgs...

[CAPFlyer]

Mr. Weisbender,

As one of the other Admins, I find your attitude and actions unacceptable. You were the one who chose to take a private conversation public, not John. You were the one who chose to get upset over a situation that has been addressed multiple times in both this forum and by front page notices over the last several months. During this time, we (the staff) have stated what actions would be taken when the situation arose and why it was being taken.

If you do not agree with it - fine. But to have such an attitude towards those whom are VOLUNTEERING their time to help keep this network going and/or to develop and create the tools that you use is unacceptable.

When you signed up to this forum, you agreed to follow the rules of this forum. The rules are posted for all to see (http://www.fsairlines.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=697), and you broke the following -

1. While using the forum, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to enjoy the board. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other posters.

9. You will follow the instructions of authorized personnel while on the FLYnet Forum. IE listen to Moderators and Administrators.

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Do not create threads/posts asking for an FLYnet Member to address an issue, or respond. Instead, create a well thought out post with a descriptive title. FLYnet Members read the boards regularly and will see your post. If they have a comment about the issue, they will add it. This rule includes any threads accusing an airline of cheating in some way shape or form, will be deleted. All inquiries/complaints should be made to one of the admins, or to support@fsairlines.net

You have been given 2 official warnings now about your conduct - one by John via the support ticket system and now one by me on the forum. The next step is a 7 day suspension from the forum. If you choose to continue, you will be removed from both this forum and the network.