Speed

[flex]

Hello,

With my highest regards for this [your] program, I have but one complaint. The 250kt speed restriction is too sensative. I know you have probably seen a plethora of threads related to this subject but seriously, I was leveling off at 10,000 ft at 270 kts, and it got me for being " - overspeed under 10.000 " ... I am so adamant about leveing off at 10,000 so things like this don't happen; I have been 'caught' many times actually being 'overspeed under 10.000' but this time I definantly was not. Now, you say, "Well, you are just one person and it is only -5 points...", but really this sensor has finally gotten on my nerve, and though it has caught me fair and square before, several times have left me staring at vataware wondering 'Now where was I over 250...'. Please consider giving perhaps a 500-750ft shelf below 10.000 before the sensor kicks in. This would be much appriciated to help stop inaccurate readings of speed vs. altitude. And please, if you have any other solutions I would love to hear them.

[PCD001]

Why should the threshold be below 10,000ft ?
Why don't you aim to be at <250kts at say 10,500ft, then you will be sure of staying with the limits set by the Client ?
(not withstanding sudden changes of wind direction which can bring you above 250kts again !).

Cheers now

[Dok]

In my opinion it is normal limits. Fly a little above. On all jet I fly at 13000ft, and on propeller at 7000ft. If you fly on propeller, 250kt it is too big speed for the screw plane.

[CAPFlyer]

...And please, if you have any other solutions I would love to hear them.

Standard airline practice is to reduce your descent speed through 12,000 feet to ~500 FPM and slow to 250 knots. This is usually sufficient time (4 minutes) to slow down from your descent speed (which on most planes isn't above 300 knots) to 250 knots.

You have to plan to start your descent early due to this need to reduce your descent rate, but once you're slowed down, you can then re-increase your descent rate and/or use the speed brakes (if so equipped) to "catch up" to your descent profile.

I know for certain that the PMDG 747 & 737 will automatically plan and perform this rate reduction if flying in VNAV mode. I don't know if any other "complex" addons will do it as well, but it's a standard function of the Honeywell FMC's that are used in all FMC-equipped Boeing products and most FMC-equipped McDonnell Douglas products in the real world. The Smith's FMC that is added onto many planes still flying does not have this function.

[flex]

Okay, Thank you for the imput but the issue is that even at 10,000 (with correct altimiter setting as well as ctrl-z confirmation) it said that I was over 250 kts BELOW 10,000 ft. Usually, I set my a/t to 250kts as I begin the descent and sometimes if necessary (such as by controller instruction to descend below 10,000 ft.) I apply speed brake to compensate for the extra descent and rate required. Like I said, I always level off at 10,000ft (again, certain exceptions with regards to ATC) so that this does not happen. Maybe a 50ft shelf could work, eliminating possible misreadings; and if you ARE over 250 kts it is kind of hard to slow in that short of a time frame (and isn't there already a 10kt buffer zone for speed?). Again, just input but I would like your reconsideration.

[CAPFlyer]

There is no buffer zone for altitude, only for speed. You will get a penalty if over 260 knots for more than a few seconds at or below 10,000 feet.

We're not changing the rule because there is no need to change the rule, just as we won't change the landing light rules. You have plenty of opprotunity to slow down below 250 knots. If you don't make it, then it's your fault for not planning properly. We all live by the same rule.

[Alky]

Usually, I set my a/t to 250kts as I begin the descent

I usually set it to 245.

[Brian Peace]

I never get dinged becuase I level off at 12k (as was stated) and slow to 230 ias... then continue the decent keeping speed at or under 230. then I flip z lights on at about 8000..... no probems at all

[flex]

the issue is that even at 10,000 (with correct altimiter setting as well as ctrl-z confirmation) it said that I was over 250 kts BELOW 10,000 ft...Like I said, I always level off at 10,000ft so that this does not happen.

You have plenty of opprotunity to slow down below 250 knots. If you don't make it, then it's your fault for not planning properly.

Respectivly folks, seriously... did you not read my post? I was AT 10,000 NOT BELOW... And improper planning... why was I level at 10,000 again? Oh gee thats right, so I WOULDN'T get pentalized...

[Miikoyan]

There is no buffer zone for altitude, only for speed. You will get a penalty if over 260 knots for more than a few seconds at or below 10,000 feet.

And, for a sidenote, I believe everyone else here is being nice and trying to help you. No need to lash out to them.

EDIT: Sorry... quoted a wrong person... corrected now

[Brian Peace]

the issue is that even at 10,000 (with correct altimiter setting as well as ctrl-z confirmation) it said that I was over 250 kts BELOW 10,000 ft...Like I said, I always level off at 10,000ft so that this does not happen.

You have plenty of opprotunity to slow down below 250 knots. If you don't make it, then it's your fault for not planning properly.

Respectivly folks, seriously... did you not read my post? I was AT 10,000 NOT BELOW... And improper planning... why was I level at 10,000 again? Oh gee thats right, so I WOULDN'T get pentalized...

Hey all I was trying to suggest is that perhaps you make 11,000 or 12,000 your level off and slow down point... instead of 10,000. In real life theyre slowed down BEFORE 10,000 not at or under... before they reach 10,000 wether there leveling off there or not

Have a good flight!

[AdmiralRolfe]

the issue is that even at 10,000 (with correct altimiter setting as well as ctrl-z confirmation) it said that I was over 250 kts BELOW 10,000 ft

If you think about it, it is virtually and realistically impossible to maintain an exact 10,000 feet. There will always be deviations, usually up to +- 100 feet. With strong winds and changing pressures, the deviation may be higher. The autopilot (or your manual piloting) will always try to compensate and adjust, but it's just impossible to keep an exact calibrated 10,000 feet. And of course, the client will ding you for this issue unless you slow down BEFORE you reach 10,000 feet, not AT 10,000 feet.

[Alky]

the issue is that even at 10,000 (with correct altimiter setting as well as ctrl-z confirmation) it said that I was over 250 kts BELOW 10,000 ft

If you think about it, it is virtually and realistically impossible to maintain an exact 10,000 feet. There will always be deviations, usually up to +- 100 feet. With strong winds and changing pressures, the deviation may be higher. The autopilot (or your manual piloting) will always try to compensate and adjust, but it's just impossible to keep an exact calibrated 10,000 feet. And of course, the client will ding you for this issue unless you slow down BEFORE you reach 10,000 feet, not AT 10,000 feet.

FLEX:
Why in the world are you so concerned about levelling out at 10,000 ft. !?
I've never heard of anyone doing that or seen it for that matter in numerous cockpit videos I've watched.
All you need to do is manage your speed so that you're at 250 or less as you pass through 10k.
When you're at 20k and ATC says descend to 8,000 ft., they don't mean descend to 10k, level out and then got to 8k, they mean, descend to 8,000.

[flex]

Okay, well you all clearly misunderstand me so I give up. Thanks to those of you who provided useful advice...

[CAPFlyer]

We can't misunderstand what you didn't say. You are very clear in what you've typed. If what you typed is not what you meant, then that is something that only you can fix. We cannot read your mind, only what's on the screen in front of us. This entire time you've said the same thing - you want a buffer for something that we (FSAirlines) should not and do not give a buffer for because there is plenty of time before you hit the limit to not be in violation of the rule and not get penalized.