I think I have found a bug, on A320 family, when i set business up to 16 seats, it correctly shows 16 double row seats, from 17 it shows me 13 seats and carrys on until 25 when it correctly shows the seats again.
Also the ration between Business and First class doesnt make much sense to me, not sure if this is a bug. The Business to First class ratio is 1/2 the passengers. Yet the price is also set to the same ratio. It does not make a difference if i have a row of first or a row of business, i earn the same yet have more pax/bag weight on the buisness.
e.g.
std rate 100$, 6 seats a row makes 600$
Business 200$, 4 seats a row 800$
First 400$, 2 seats a row makes 800$
looking at a flight LHR/DXB at BA - Eco 500, business 2663 (lets say around 5xECO), first 4743 (lets say 9,5xECO)
this would change the upper example to
std rate 100$, 6 seats a row makes 600$
Business 500$, 4 seats a row 2000$
First 950$, 2 seats a row makes 1900$
My B747 flight below would then have a business class ticket of 2000 and not 800$, first class ticket price of 3800$ in stead if 1600$:
Economy: PAX (461) x Ticket Price (400v$)
Business: PAX (75) x Ticket Price (800v$)
First: PAX (16) x Ticket Price (1600v$)
I know looking at the flight LHR-JFK the ratio is 2000 eco class and 4x to business 8000 and 5x from eco to first at 10.950. I know we are working with something static that in real life be highly dynamic.
an easy work around for various flights would be maybe to set prices for each class in the Flight plan page?
Seat config graphic
-
joefremont
- FSAirlines Developer
- Posts: 3697
- Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 5:46 am
- Location: KSFO
Re: Seat config graphic
It seams your asking about two different topics. First is the graphics for the seat config, second is the first/business/economy seat pricing model, lets deal with both separately.
As for the graphic, yes it often gets it wrong. The formulas used to decide how wide the aircraft is based on the maximum number of seats, and a larger 737 or A321 can hold about as much as a smaller widebody and it gets confused. I have been reluctant to change this, coding wise it would not be hard. Set a maximum number of seats in the row on the aircraft DB entry and have the code look at it instead of calculating. But with over 1000 aircraft in the database that is a lot of data to collect, and to be honest that graphic is purely cosmetic and has no impact on anything. I actually had a brain wave this morning to add it to the aircraft type group records I created last year, only about 200 of those so less data to collect, but still a lot. We could go super simple, for the most part narrow body aircraft can only hold 200 kg packages so if that limit is in place then assume max 6 seats per economy row. But again, it is purely cosmetic and does not impact anything.
Pricing for business and first class seats of course is not just cosmetic. When this site was first created there was only one kind of seat, economy, the math there was pretty simple. Compare the price asked to the 'standard' price for that route, calculated on distance and decide how many passengers want to go on that flight. When business and first class seats were added later we did not want to disrupt the economics of the platform too much, it is true that in the real world a first class seat may generate 10x the that of a real world economy seat but we did not want to design a system that would encourage airlines to go all first class, most passengers in the world fly economy, so we kept it simple. A business class seat can replace 2 economy and gets 2x the revenue, first replaces 4 economy seats and gets 4x the revenue, the balance is maintained.
Revenue per row is something I have never even though about before, but I don't think real world airlines do either, its not about the row, its about the area the seat occupies. I am sure you have been on a big airliner and it will be obvious, the space between the different types of rows is not consistent. First class seats are longer and have more space between the rows compared to business class, same between the business and the economy, you can get more rows of economy seats in the same area you can get first class.
I would love to have a more realistic pricing model for the passengers. In the real world you have millions of individuals making decisions every day. Airlines publish their available flights months in advance and those flights are going to fly, a given passenger, who is at one location and wants to go some place specific will choose between them deciding on price, timing, how close does it get them to there destination, can they get a connection to get them to there final destination, how much luxury are they willing to pay for and what is it worth to them. FSA is quite different, there published routes but most of them are never flown. A pilot will decide on the spur of the moment that they want to do a given flight, the charter that are not published in advance account for about 1/3 of those. Having a database of millions possible passengers, calculating what decision each is going to make is going to be extremely complicated to manage.
As for the graphic, yes it often gets it wrong. The formulas used to decide how wide the aircraft is based on the maximum number of seats, and a larger 737 or A321 can hold about as much as a smaller widebody and it gets confused. I have been reluctant to change this, coding wise it would not be hard. Set a maximum number of seats in the row on the aircraft DB entry and have the code look at it instead of calculating. But with over 1000 aircraft in the database that is a lot of data to collect, and to be honest that graphic is purely cosmetic and has no impact on anything. I actually had a brain wave this morning to add it to the aircraft type group records I created last year, only about 200 of those so less data to collect, but still a lot. We could go super simple, for the most part narrow body aircraft can only hold 200 kg packages so if that limit is in place then assume max 6 seats per economy row. But again, it is purely cosmetic and does not impact anything.
Pricing for business and first class seats of course is not just cosmetic. When this site was first created there was only one kind of seat, economy, the math there was pretty simple. Compare the price asked to the 'standard' price for that route, calculated on distance and decide how many passengers want to go on that flight. When business and first class seats were added later we did not want to disrupt the economics of the platform too much, it is true that in the real world a first class seat may generate 10x the that of a real world economy seat but we did not want to design a system that would encourage airlines to go all first class, most passengers in the world fly economy, so we kept it simple. A business class seat can replace 2 economy and gets 2x the revenue, first replaces 4 economy seats and gets 4x the revenue, the balance is maintained.
Revenue per row is something I have never even though about before, but I don't think real world airlines do either, its not about the row, its about the area the seat occupies. I am sure you have been on a big airliner and it will be obvious, the space between the different types of rows is not consistent. First class seats are longer and have more space between the rows compared to business class, same between the business and the economy, you can get more rows of economy seats in the same area you can get first class.
I would love to have a more realistic pricing model for the passengers. In the real world you have millions of individuals making decisions every day. Airlines publish their available flights months in advance and those flights are going to fly, a given passenger, who is at one location and wants to go some place specific will choose between them deciding on price, timing, how close does it get them to there destination, can they get a connection to get them to there final destination, how much luxury are they willing to pay for and what is it worth to them. FSA is quite different, there published routes but most of them are never flown. A pilot will decide on the spur of the moment that they want to do a given flight, the charter that are not published in advance account for about 1/3 of those. Having a database of millions possible passengers, calculating what decision each is going to make is going to be extremely complicated to manage.
I've sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the lands.
-
joefremont
- FSAirlines Developer
- Posts: 3697
- Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 5:46 am
- Location: KSFO
Re: Seat config graphic
Update, I started trying to research number of seats in a row by aircraft type and gave up after about 15 minutes, too tedious and really not that much of an addition. But adding a check on maximum package size was doable, so aircraft that can carry 2000 kg packages and more than 200 passengers are considered 'wide body' and will show multiple isle layout, while aircraft with only 200 kg package or less than 200 passengers are single isle aircraft and will have no more than 6 seats across.
Again, this is purely cosmetic in the aircraft config page and has no impact on anything.
The update is currently on beta.fsairlines.net
Again, this is purely cosmetic in the aircraft config page and has no impact on anything.
The update is currently on beta.fsairlines.net
I've sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the lands.
-
johnrichards1991
- Ticket Agent
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:35 pm
Re: Seat config graphic
Oh right, yes that does sound like a lot. I just tought it would be an error somewhere because the seating graphic only effects the mentioned rows on my A320..
As for the prices, i used the revenue per row as it is a good comparison.
I dont know much about the long haul flights.. The A320 Family has doesnt really have first anymore, most have a movable cabin divider. If there are more business booked, the MCD shall be moved by the crew or handling agent and then the middle seat is left free or a table will be pulled up. Also the business class gets food whereas most eco have to pay for snacks & they would not do all that for the same price as filling the seats with eco pax.
My goal is to lower the multiplyer to 1x for some real feeling.. but the way it is built up it seems near impossible to do. for some reason my sim gave me an AC overstress crash during takeoff roll
Thats a B check costing 2.051.644v$ - and that is with my own maintenance.. Basic income is around 20.000-30.000 per flight, thats 68 flights before i even pay for the rent of Maintenance hangar and A Check for the ac flying those flights to pay for the B check.
As for the prices, i used the revenue per row as it is a good comparison.
I dont know much about the long haul flights.. The A320 Family has doesnt really have first anymore, most have a movable cabin divider. If there are more business booked, the MCD shall be moved by the crew or handling agent and then the middle seat is left free or a table will be pulled up. Also the business class gets food whereas most eco have to pay for snacks & they would not do all that for the same price as filling the seats with eco pax.
My goal is to lower the multiplyer to 1x for some real feeling.. but the way it is built up it seems near impossible to do. for some reason my sim gave me an AC overstress crash during takeoff roll
Thats a B check costing 2.051.644v$ - and that is with my own maintenance.. Basic income is around 20.000-30.000 per flight, thats 68 flights before i even pay for the rent of Maintenance hangar and A Check for the ac flying those flights to pay for the B check.