an-225 weigh incorrect.

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CRGaming
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an-225 weigh incorrect.

Post by CRGaming » Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:01 pm

hi,

https://www.antonov.com/en/file/V5hQc2h ... et%20Union.

Page 5 shows MTOW is 1,410,958 pounds. Not 1,322,774 (640,000kg instead of 600,000kg)

https://military-history.fandom.com/wik ... -225_Mriya

Another document shows the empty weight as 628,317pounds, not 551,156
This doc also confirm the MTOW above

These values are the ones used on the new an-225 by inibuilds for mSfs

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joefremont
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Re: an-225 weigh incorrect.

Post by joefremont » Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:35 pm

I am reluctant to make this change, there are those using older sim models where if I change the DOW or MTOW in our DB the client will start to reject them. Since the payload and fuel quantity does not change in any of these updates I don't see any value doing this at this time.
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CRGaming
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Re: an-225 weigh incorrect.

Post by CRGaming » Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:40 am

So your saying since older models have incorrect info you don't want to update it? Do to the way FS airlines handles max take off weight I'm about 80,000 pounds short on fuel. This just forced me to divert. Why don't they update the old planes if they are incorrect. Even the link to a Wikipedia article you provide now says your weights are incorrect. Since the empty weight is also higher i cant haul enough fuel without the higher MTOW.

The only work around is not loading up the plane with the proper cargo, but then the plane preforms unrealistically since it not at MTOW in the sim. basicity it forcing me to fly 80,000 pounds lighter then it should be all the time.

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joefremont
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Re: an-225 weigh incorrect.

Post by joefremont » Wed Mar 01, 2023 2:39 am

CRGaming wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:40 am
The only work around is not loading up the plane with the proper cargo, but then the plane preforms unrealistically since it not at MTOW in the sim. basicity it forcing me to fly 80,000 pounds lighter then it should be all the time.
Not true, The MTOW, MZFW and DOW are all shifted by about the same amount, the end result is basically the same when the system calculates how much fuel and cargo you can take on.
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CRGaming
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Re: an-225 weigh incorrect.

Post by CRGaming » Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:28 pm

For the performance to be correct on the inibuilds plane the take of weight should be 1.4 million pounds at max cargo and fuel. Your system won’t let me take off at that weight. So instead I take off at 1.3 million pounds and get a significant performance increase since I’m taking off under mtow even though I should be at mtow. Also the empty weight is off by 77 thousand pounds while mtow is off by 83 thousand. This results in a 6 k fuel/ cargo discrepancy even if I take off at a cheating weight. Basically since my empty weight is higher i need to set cargo for 77k less then what fsa shows.

I can’t believe your keeping the info incorrect just to allow people with incorrect planes to continue flying. MSFS is the future of sim aviation. A few years ago we didn’t have a lot of planes and some were inaccurate so I understand siding with the older sims models. But now we have a high quality planes and your making us cheat on the weights to fly it just to keep inaccurate old models flyable. It’s not my fault that the weights on previous sims Antonov were wrong.

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Re: an-225 weigh incorrect.

Post by joefremont » Wed Mar 01, 2023 5:28 pm

CR I am going to delete your other 225 post because you keep posting false information and I don't want to have to explain this in too many places.

You need to understand what the client does with those weights. First it wants to figure out if you are using the right aircraft, the only reliable information it can get from the sim is number of engines and the dry and MTOW. If you are using an aircraft that is significantly smaller it will stop you, a smaller aircraft will less fuel and therefore an unfair advantage, but if you are using a heavier aircraft its fine with that. So if you book a 747 and try to use a 707 it will block you, but the reverse is ok, a larger aircraft will use more fuel but thats the pilots choice and there is no unfair advantage.

Next it wants to make sure you have the right amount of payload for you fuel and for that it uses the MTOW and DOW from the database and the fuel from the sim, the in sim weight is too easy to manipulate so it can't be trusted and is not use for that.

The sim does show the difference between the sim ZFW and the db MZFW but its just informational and you can safely ignore it.

So if the DOW and MTOW are both off by the same amount, in this case both about 35,000 kg less they cancel each other out and you still get an accurate flight. Since no other aircraft is even close to the size of the 225 you can't substitute a different sim model for it.

You don't have to deal with all the people complaining about 'why does the client say I am using the wrong aircraft' and I would not be looking forward to dozens of such complaints coming in if we were to update the weights right now.
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Re: an-225 weigh incorrect.

Post by CRGaming » Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:38 pm

On the correct weights:
MTOW 1,410,958 - empty weight 628,317 = 782,641 for Fuel and cargo

On your weights:
MTOW 1,322,773 - empty weight 551155 = 771,618 for Fuel and cargo

That is an 11,000 pound difference. 11,000 pound of fuel would get me 15-25 min of flight time and would have made it so I did not need to divert yesterday. Because your app wont let me take off at over your mtow I cant add 11,000 pound more fuel. So, even if I ignore the fact that to get my plane to MTOW it's gonna say my ZFW is way off, I can't carry the extra fuel I need. (or I need to reduce cargo). Also, your letting other planes cheat by flying around 88,185 pound lighter then they should be.

Your system calculates mtow in the app using your numbers. (your empty weight + Cargo + fuel) Your numbers mean i cant carry the extra weight the real plane could.

This shouldn't even be a discussion. Your numbers are way off. You don't even dispute that the numbers are wrong. Any other time this was pointed out, it was fixed to keep your database accurate. You want to keep the numbers way off to prevent a few error messages and to allow people to keep cheating. Do you really want to run a data base that is flat out wrong just because people are used to it being wrong? Can't you just send a company wide message to all the airlines flying the 225 explaining the change? Those pilots can then change their inaccurate weights and keep flying. One version for P3D says it can fly at mach .93 and haul 1million pounds of cargo which is completely wrong. Pilots with planes that are not correct should fix them. Those of us flying the accurate plane should not be penalized.

And in the other post that you deleted...nothing i said was inaccurate. I said your numbers don't match the real plane and that you said you didn't want to fix it. That's true so far.

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joefremont
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Re: an-225 weigh incorrect.

Post by joefremont » Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:43 am

Ah, finally we get to know what this is really about that extra 5000 kg of fuel you wish to carry (its a European aircraft you really should use metric).

But your right, we have always tried to keep the database accurate am probably just trying to avoid additional conflict after for reasons I am not going to discus here have been a stressful few months

I have updated the database.

Btw, I looked at your diverted flight and the real issue was that your fuel usage was way above average by maybe 25-33%, but to be honest I am not disappointed to see that, not that you had to divert, but because other freeware AN-225's had fuel usage that was way below average and if the IniBuilds 225 is more accurate in its fuel usage then I will have fewer flights needing review.

In many ways I regret that we allowed the AN-225 to be used on the FSA platform, as its being used in a way it was never designed which is as a bulk cargo carrier, gobbling up all the available packages rather than as a special cargo carrier for only the largest items that need transport, and its unbalancing the economics of the FSA world. There is a very good reason why only one was ever built. Maybe the solution is to restrict it to only carrying 20,000 kg and 100,000 kg packages, but that is a battle for another day.

Your probably never going to see a A380 freighter, mostly because of its unusual double decker design the logistics of handing cargo containers on the upper deck outweigh the advantages its larger size gives. It's much more efficient to use a pair of 747F's. The unusual shape of the AN-225 means your not going to be able to efficiently put standard cargo containers into it in an efficient way.
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CRGaming
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Re: an-225 weigh incorrect.

Post by CRGaming » Thu Mar 02, 2023 2:11 am

Thanks. i would not be against limiting to 20,000kg or greater packages. That seems reasonable. (or add more 100,000 packages in the game)

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