Super Stuffed Flights - Variety Possibilities?

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Captain K-Man
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Super Stuffed Flights - Variety Possibilities?

Post by Captain K-Man » Thu May 14, 2020 8:11 pm

Several of my pilots have been discussing what they perceive as a weakness of FSA and I have actually lost two pilots to this perceived problem (they went to a different system that provides more load variety). Our airline is rather powerful with a maxed Rep. No matter what we do, every single flight for every single division we have is always stuffed full with passengers and cargo. Every single seat, every single square inch of cargo space gets stuffed fulled so there is no variance in ZFW per aircraft. They are always MAX weight.

Are there plans or can something be done to make it a little more varied? I for one think loose cargo should be removed. With the package system in place now that should be only cargo that is loaded in my opinion. The left over space shouldn't be stuffed with the standard cargo. This would add a little variance in ZFW numbers. This would probably require another adjustment to package cargo spawn rates with a higher rate given to major hubs and cargo hubs around the world.

I realize airlines try to stuff their planes full on every flight irl but hopefully you understand the complaint? Maybe the time of year (vacation/holidays vs. normal days) could influence how many PAX are wanting to fly so there is some variance in weights?

Thoughts on this?
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joefremont
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Re: Super Stuffed Flights - Variety Possibilities?

Post by joefremont » Fri May 15, 2020 12:53 am

This is another one of those topics where I get pulled both ways on. Mostly it's 'why is my plane not full'. I have tried to come up with formulas that are useful, but I did make a conscious effort to not include aircraft size as one of the factors, it's mostly reputation, price, distance and population of the departure and arrival airports. We do keep track of a number of passengers or cargo at an airport waiting to depart and based on the formula's your flight gets a percentage, but if its a large city and there have not been many flights it may be hard to make a dent in that.

If I try to tune things so a 747/A380 has enough payload to be profitable between two cities, an 737/A320 will always be full, and likewise if a route where a 737/A320 is just mostly full the 747/A380 will be mostly empty, its all part of getting the right aircraft for the right route.

But the easiest way to not have full flights is increase your ticket prices, it will be bit of a balancing act, at 300% of standard your not going to get any passengers at all.

Granted with cargo your ticket price is not a factor, but there are limits on incoming and outgoing cargo and no single flight can use up more than a third or quarter of that. There are many who find the new package system too complicated and don't want to deal with that so for them we still have the 'generic' cargo system, an option to turn it off? Maybe, I will think about that.

There was one pilot who gave was quite upset when we went to the new cargo system, before that you could fly from and to any airport and always get full cargo, and that even with generic cargo there were limits, flying his giant 748 into tiny islands and towns he was upset he was not getting full loads, and then with the packages he felt he should be able to load anything going anywhere on the plan and someone else should magically handle getting it to its final destination (I can't tell you how many times I had to delete packages off his aircraft), and he would complain in the many very log messages I got how 'unrealistic' my new system was, insisting I go back to the old system which is even less realistic. On one of the last messages he said (as translated by google) that in the real world they would not let him fly if the flight was not profitable and since he was flying it, it should be profitable. I had to say 'yes the airline would not let you fly if the flight is not profitable, an officer of the company would do the math and decide if its profitable and on FSA you are that officer'. I have not heard from him since that message, and it's been a few months, but I am waiting for the next one.
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Cat
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Re: Super Stuffed Flights - Variety Possibilities?

Post by Cat » Fri May 15, 2020 3:19 am

Package Cargo flights are already making far more than passenger planes, to take revenue from them would make the ratio even worse than it is now.

Why would anyone not want a full airplane? I do not understand the reasoning behind wanting to make less. I for one do not like having to adjust my payload manager on every flight, but I guess some enjoy the 30 minute pre-flight / loading process.

If FSAirlines implemented every idea from every person, it would become such a tangled web of goo, no one would enjoy it. At some point there has to be a line drawn. This is our mission, this is what we do. We cannot be everything to everyone. No one can.

The workload on our only Admin, Joe - has of late become increasing to the point I hope he doesn't just throw in the towel and say "uncle".

Ticket Pricing, load factors in the Flight Route Creation Tool and airline/pilot reputation should be more than enough for any VA to modify their "market share" if they really want to fly less than full airplanes.

I honestly think instead of "more features", we should pull back and just let things ride, work out the bugs we have and give the poor guy a break.

The most successful businesses/systems are usually the most simple ones because A) they work reliably B) they are predictable C) They find their niche market and don't try to be everything for everyone.

To counter all those who are never happy and want more, more and more I only say to Joe: THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO! Your hard work is very much appreciated!
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Serret
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Re: Super Stuffed Flights - Variety Possibilities?

Post by Serret » Sat May 16, 2020 2:57 pm

For sure Joe, your work is admirable. :D :D
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Re: Super Stuffed Flights - Variety Possibilities?

Post by Captain K-Man » Fri May 22, 2020 2:14 pm

Well its not really about the money with those types. Its about their perceived 'immersion'. I mean I have been on main line PAX planes at major cities in real life that aren't stuffed to the brim with people. So its not like its an unrealistic request from people to want a little variance. I see their point. Long before we lost our pilots to this 'problem' I already told people if they want the variance then pull the loose cargo off their plane by looking at the flight plan that FSA kicks out and subtract the loose cargo tonnage from their ZFW and tada. Ignore the FSA client when it says you are underweight for the flight or change the numbers with the client. You have a variance but I guess math is hard for some people so they want an automated way for them to have variance.

From an FSA coding stand point having max ZFW all the time does get irritating in the actual client because we're always getting 'You Have Exceeded your max landing weight' penalties on a majority of our flights. Thankfully it doesn't doc you any rep points for that. I think that may have been what drove the two pilots in question away. They were always getting that penalty and didn't think it was fair they should be docked for something they have no control over.

As the CEO of the airline, I love stuffed planes. :D Gimme dat money! $$$$$
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joefremont
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Re: Super Stuffed Flights - Variety Possibilities?

Post by joefremont » Fri May 22, 2020 5:20 pm

its true that on real world flights they are not always full. But then on busy routes there are often many flights a day. I took a look at KSFO, on FSA for the 20th we had a total of 7 departures and only one on the 21st. On a normal day United airlines will have 12 departures just to Chicago KORD. So I have tried to do something to simulate that, as each flight departs it pulls from the bucket of passengers waiting to leave, as that bucket gets lower fewer passengers are available to get on your flight. The same principle works on the other side as the bucket gets full (or over full). So you can imagine, if your the only flight leaving that day your going to be full.
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Re: Super Stuffed Flights - Variety Possibilities?

Post by Cat » Fri May 22, 2020 9:33 pm

"Exceeded Max Landing Weight" advisory - one way to avoid that is to take your MLW (Max Landing Weight) and subtract your ZFW (Zero Fuel Weight) and then you know exactly how much fuel you can land with before you trip the advisory. Some aircraft like the Cessna 208 Caravan have you landing on fumes and it is here where the cargo adjustment tool in the aircraft seating layout/config comes in handy. You can limit the cargo to allow more fuel without tripping the advisory. More math, sorry! :shock: :lol:
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Re: Super Stuffed Flights - Variety Possibilities?

Post by GGhost01 » Sun May 31, 2020 7:01 pm

A person may not realize that in real airline operations the tail baggage section of the passenger airplane many airlines narrow-body aircraft will take US mail from one airport to another airport to be dropped off by the airline to the US Post Office or another countries post office or international cargo areas. Some are small packages and envelopes stuffed into heavyweight bags with cable paddle locked by the US Post Office loaded by airline ground handling for narrow body airplanes and lower cargo containers for wide-body aircraft baggage & cargo area.

So an aircraft is always getting packed up with extra packages some areas could be a little less according to populations and varied according to the size of the airport and international airport status or country status and also various seasons of the year for holiday times packages would increase according to each countries holidays.

My knowledge in commercial airline and cargo industry, generally in the USA know as the fall season of September or October (Octoberfest & Halloween holiday) extra aircraft for passenger and cargo starts to begin the kickoff for the increase of passenger and cargo service. The US airlines and cargo aircraft are being pulled from the desert storage and inspected put back into service due to large passenger service and cargo is ramping up for November is Thanksgiving, December is Christmas time, January is New Year's Eve, and February is Valentine's Day. Some larger aircraft are swapped for some flights and swapped aircraft or add extra flights with aircraft to certain areas. Then the tapper off begins and airlines shuffle aircraft around to demands of flights. Some aircraft are put on Vacation hotspots flights in the springtime. Some aircraft may return to the desert in the early Summer months. Some airlines also use concrete parking spots at large airports for overflow and backup use during normal operations in case of aircraft downtime and breakage as spare aircraft use.

I also have knowledge the B737-700 was built for Southwest Airlines and other airlines operating in the southwest states to save them money as hot climate and atmospheric conditions of thin air decreases the lift capabilities of the 737-500 back in the days when Southwest Airlines was running extra B737- 200, 300 & 500 planes loaded with baggage only to catch up with everyone bags for several flights from the southwest states. So Southwest airlines liked you to early check bags so they could load them and send your baggage ahead of your flights. Some flights were late though too as it depends on the baggage flight leaving on time or being delayed too. The B737-700 cleared that issue up quickly as other airlines just used the B757-200/300 or B767-200/300 for higher thrust rating for the high heat thin air atmospheric climate conditions of the southwest states of the USA.

I hope that helps give some insight and happy flying.

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Re: Super Stuffed Flights - Variety Possibilities?

Post by BVU-951 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:19 pm

As most va's have a multiplier, I think the number of passengers should go down accordingly.
Eg. 25x
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