Aircraft Status.

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AdySmith
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Re: Aircraft Status.

Post by AdySmith » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:03 am

having the flaps and gear down when your flying to fast could be added
That would need an enormous database of limit speeds for every aircraft :shock:

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joefremont
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Re: Aircraft Status.

Post by joefremont » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:41 pm

AdySmith wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:03 am
having the flaps and gear down when your flying to fast could be added
That would need an enormous database of limit speeds for every aircraft :shock:
Not necessarily, for the most part that data is already in the aircraft.cfg file. Hopefully FSUICP/SimConnect has a way to read it, and of course X-Plane is another matter all together.
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joefremont
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Re: Aircraft Status.

Post by joefremont » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:18 pm

joefremont wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:44 pm
MrJTSZ wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:48 pm
Is a good idea, but I thing it will be more accurated if the landing are 3000 or 5000fpm. At this point i'm sure the plane would be no able to fly :lol:
Interesting idea, I had considered making some updates to the 'crash' system so that if an AC bumps into something at the airport at a slow speed that its not recorded as a crash, as a converse to that, if a landing rates in the 2000+ fpm range but the pilot has turned off crash detection should we record that as a crash?
I talked to a CEO today who had a new pilot, who for five of his first seven flights had a VS > 4000 fps but no crashes recorded. I think we are going to do the recording of a flight as a crash if the VS is greater than some threshold. Biggest question is what number to use, I think something between 2000 and 3000 is in order, any ideas?
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joefremont
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Re: Aircraft Status.

Post by joefremont » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm

Maybe along the lines of some suggestions

400-599 fps Firm Landing rating -0, reputation -0
600-1199 fps Hard Land Landing, rating -5, reputation -0
1200-2399 fps Very hard landing, rating -15, reputation -5 (same as wrong airport/running out of fuel)
2400+ fps, Crash: Rating -50, reputation -20 (as now)
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Cat
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Re: Aircraft Status.

Post by Cat » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:35 pm

looks about right and here's some data per FSX aircraft.cfg files

The crash "threshold" on contact points for default FSX aircraft which will trigger a "crash" event if crashes are turned on:

C172 -1500 fpm on the nose, 3500 on the mains [wow]
point.0 = 1, 0.90, 0.00, -4.09, 1500, 0, 0.5, 22.0, 0.25,2.5, 0.7, 0.0, 0.0, 0
point.1 = 1, -4.70, -4.50, -4.01, 3500, 1, 0.5, 0.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.7, 0.0, 0.0, 2
point.2 = 1, -4.70, 4.50, -4.01, 3500, 2, 0.5, 0.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.7, 0.0, 0.0, 3

C208 -1500 fpm on the nose, 2500 on the mains
[contact_points]
point.0 = 1, -4.70, 0.00, -5.40, 1500, 0, 0.5, 60.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.7, 0.0, 0.0, 0
point.1 = 1, -18.00, -6.00, -5.40, 2500, 1, 0.5, 0.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.7, 0.0, 0.0, 2
point.2 = 1, -18.00, 6.00, -5.40, 2500, 2, 0.5, 0.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.7, 0.0, 0.0, 3

Beech Baron -1600 all around
//GEAR
point.0 = 1, 0.82, 0.00, -3.77, 1600, 0, 0.633, 40, 0.42, 4.0, 0.90, 3.0, 3.0, 0, 152, 180
point.1 = 1, -8.04, -4.79, -3.93, 1600, 1, 0.886, 0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.85, 4.1, 4.3, 2, 152, 200
point.2 = 1, -8.04, 4.79, -3.93, 1600, 2, 0.886, 0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.85, 4.3, 4.1, 3, 152, 200

Beechcraft KingAir 350 1181 on the nose, 1574 on the mains
[contact_points]
point.0=1, 13.00, 0.00, -4.70, 1181, 0, 0.596, 39.9, 0.296, 2.5, 0.9516, 4.8, 4.8, 0, 184.0, 184.0
point.1=1, -1.67, -8.58, -5.03, 1574, 1, 0.596, 0.0, 0.642, 2.5, 0.8152, 4.5, 5.2, 2, 184.0, 184.0
point.2=1, -1.67, 8.58, -5.03, 1574, 2, 0.596, 0.0, 0.642, 2.5, 0.8152, 4.8, 4.9, 3, 184.0, 184.0

deHavlliand Beaver on floats (no gear) 2200 on the floats front & rear contact points
point.0 = 4, 0.00, 4.80, -8.00, 2200, 0, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 2.5, 0.390, 0.0, 0.0, 3, 0, 0
point.1 = 4, 0.00, -4.80, -8.00, 2200, 0, 0, 0.0, 0.5, 2.5, 0.891, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0, 0
point.2 = 4, -18.10, 4.80, -7.00, 2200, 0, 0, 0.0, 0.5, 2.5, 0.891, 0.0, 0.0, 3, 0, 0
point.3 = 4, -18.10, -4.80, -7.00, 2200, 0, 0, 0.0, 0.5, 2.5, 0.891, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0, 0

Douglas DC3 1600 on the mains 1200 on the tail wheel
[contact_points]
point.0=1, -56.00, 0.0, -2.3, 1200.0, 0, 0.60, 60.0, 0.200, 2.5, 0.695, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.1=1, -18.55, -9.25, -11.0, 1600.0, 1, 1.35, 0.0, 0.704, 2.5, 0.686, 7.0, 9.0, 7.0, 166.0, 166.0
point.2=1, -18.55, 9.25, -11.0, 1600.0, 2, 1.35, 0.0, 0.704, 2.5, 0.682, 3.0, 5.0, 7.0, 166.0, 166.0

Learjet 45 1181 on the nose 1574 on the mains
[contact_points]
point.0=1, -10.00, 0.00, -4.35, 1181.1, 0, 0.6349, 46.8, 0.3000, 2.5, 0.9100, 10.0, 10.0, 0, 260.0, 260.0
point.1=1, -37.25, -4.75, -4.87, 1574.8, 1, 0.6349, 0.0, 0.4798, 2.5, 0.5456, 9.0, 9.0, 2, 260.0, 260.0
point.2=1, -37.25, 4.75, -4.87, 1574.8, 2, 0.6349, 0.0, 0.4798, 2.5, 0.5456, 9.0, 9.0, 3, 260.0, 260.0

Maule MX7 2500 on the mains 1500 on the tail wheel
[contact_points]
point.0 = 1, -15.7, 0.00, -2.42, 1500, 0, 0.36, 15.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.7, 0.0, 0.0, 0
point.1 = 1, 0.00, -3.90, -4.35, 2500, 1, 0.67, 0.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.7, 0.0, 0.0, 2
point.2 = 1, 0.00, 3.90, -4.35, 2500, 2, 0.67, 0.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.7, 0.0, 0.0, 3

Mooney Bravo 1181 on the nose 1574 on the mains
[contact_points]
point.0=1, 1.18, 0.0, -4.20, 1181.1, 0, 0.523, 33.66, 0.296, 2.5, 0.794, 3.5, 3.5, 0, 165.0, 165.0
point.1=1, -5.48, -4.5, -3.93, 1574.8, 1, 0.523, 0.00, 0.286, 2.5, 0.808, 4.7, 4.7, 2, 165.0, 165.0
point.2=1, -5.48, 4.5, -3.93, 1574.8, 2, 0.523, 0.00, 0.286, 2.5, 0.808, 5.2, 5.2, 3, 165.0, 165.0

Boeing 737-800 1600 all around
[contact_points]
point.0=1, 40.85, 0.00, -10.20, 1600, 0, 1.442, 55.92, 0.6, 2.5, 0.9, 4.0, 4.0, 0, 220.0, 250.0
point.1=1, -11.85, -9.38, -10.80, 1600, 1, 1.442, 0.00, 1.0, 2.5, 0.9, 6.9, 6.9, 2, 220.0, 250.0
point.2=1, -11.55, 9.38, -10.80, 1600, 2, 1.442, 0.00, 1.0, 2.5, 0.9, 7.1, 7.1, 3, 220.0, 250.0

Airbus A321 1600 all around
[contact_points]
point.0=1, 43.00, 0.00, -9.70, 1600, 0, 1.442, 55.92, 0.6, 2.5, 0.9, 4.0, 4.0, 0, 220.0, 250.0
point.1=1, -11.20, -12.45, -10.30, 1600, 1, 1.442, 0.00, 1.0, 2.5, 0.9, 6.9, 6.9, 2, 220.0, 250.0
point.2=1, -11.20, 12.45, -10.30, 1600, 2, 1.442, 0.00, 1.0, 2.5, 0.9, 7.1, 7.1, 3, 220.0, 250.0
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Cat
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Re: Aircraft Status.

Post by Cat » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:43 pm

It should be noted those are the gear contact points, the crash threshold for "scrape points" aka gear up landings are much lower

Example the default FSX Airbus A321 scrape points (wing tips, fuse, tail) are only 1000 vs 1600 for hitting on the gear

[contact_points]
point.0=1, 43.00, 0.00, -9.70, 1600, 0, 1.442, 55.92, 0.6, 2.5, 0.9, 4.0, 4.0, 0, 220.0, 250.0
point.1=1, -11.20, -12.45, -10.30, 1600, 1, 1.442, 0.00, 1.0, 2.5, 0.9, 6.9, 6.9, 2, 220.0, 250.0
point.2=1, -11.20, 12.45, -10.30, 1600, 2, 1.442, 0.00, 1.0, 2.5, 0.9, 7.1, 7.1, 3, 220.0, 250.0
point.3=2, -19.00, -55.00, 4.00, 1000, 0, 0.000, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0
point.4=2, -19.00, 55.00, 4.00, 1000, 0, 0.000, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0.0, 0.0
point.5=2, -51.00, 0.00, -2.00, 1000, 0, 0.000, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0
point.6=2, 54.00, 0.00, -2.00, 1000, 0, 0.000, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
point.7=2, -75.00, 0.00, 31.00, 1000, 0, 0.000, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0

FSX aircraft.cfg contact points parameters:
//0 Class <0=none,1=wheel, 2=scrape, 3=float>
//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)
//2 Lateral Position (feet)
//3 Vertical Position (feet)
//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)
//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
//6 Wheel Radius (feet)
//7 Steer Angle (degrees)
//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)
//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio
//10 Damping Ratio (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)
//11 Extension Time (seconds)
//12 Retraction Time (seconds)
//13 Sound Type
//14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
//15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)
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joefremont
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Re: Aircraft Status.

Post by joefremont » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:24 pm

Unfortunately using FSUIPC I don't have a way to get that information, (not sure about simconnect). I could go scanning around the pilots hard disk looking for the aircraft.cfg file but would still not be able to tell if any given point has gone over the limit. And if its X-Plane then all bets are off.

Besides I would rather not go randomly reading files on the pilots system, they have trusted me to install our binary program I don't want to do anything to betray that trust.

So that probably means I am not going to do the idea where I check to see if they have lowered there flaps/gear when they are going to fast, as that would also require finding the aircraft.cfg file.
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Cat
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Re: Aircraft Status.

Post by Cat » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:46 am

Yeah keeping it simple is the best ....... I was just providing the data to show you I wasn't making it up. Your numbers are pretty "ballpark" to me ....
and for sure we need a check system where pilots are not using crash detect and the system lets -3000 get by.
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flugkapitan
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Re: Aircraft Status.

Post by flugkapitan » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:59 pm

Hi Joe,

Very interesting discussion!

I like those suggestions you outlined a few posts up.

Cheers,
Scott
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"...now let's get this thing on the hump - we've got some flyin' to do!" ~ Major Kong

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