Penalty Updates

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joefremont
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Penalty Updates

Post by joefremont » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:41 pm

As I prepare the first release candidate of version 2.2, I wanted to describe how the penalties will work compared to the previous releases.

Low altitude: When you are more than 5 nm from your departure or destination airport you must be above 500 ft ALG and at some point in the flight you must be above 500 feet regardless how far you are from the airports. There is two minute delay before the penalty is applied.

In the beta you had to be above 1000 ft at some point and there was no timer.

Hard Landings: Your vertical speed on landing must be below 500 ft/min, I added a 10% margin of error before the penalty applies so now the actual threshold is 550 ft/min compared to 500 ft/min in the beta.

Landing Lights: Penalty removed in RC3

High Speed below FL100: When flying below 10,000 ft you speed needs to be below 250 kn. There is a one minute delay before the penalty is applied. If you aircraft is marked as a heavy jet then the limit for the first 15 minutes is 300 kn. In addition you can press the 'high speed approved' button and then they penalty will be ignored, but to be fair to those who are following the rules, your rating will be reduced by 5%, but its not a 'penalty'.

The delay, high speed approved and the heavy jet limit were added in the beta.

Navigation Lights: Penalty removed. It was one we were adding for the beta but I have decided against it.

Parking Brake: Penalty removed.

When release candidate is 'released' to the public I will delete all penalties that pilots received while using the beta client except for 'crashed', since I did not change that penalty from version 2.1.
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AdySmith
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Re: Penalty Updates

Post by AdySmith » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:40 am

Really pleased with all of the above.

Did you mean to add some explanatory text with the
High Speed below FL100:
?

Ady

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joefremont
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Re: Penalty Updates

Post by joefremont » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:51 pm

AdySmith wrote:Really pleased with all of the above.

Did you mean to add some explanatory text with the
High Speed below FL100:
?

Ady
Your right Andy, I fixed that.
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Mightylink
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Re: Penalty Updates

Post by Mightylink » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:42 pm

I like the new landing force penalty, now pilots will be forced to make their landings smoother and not rely on ils all the way to the ground.
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VegasTim
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Re: Penalty Updates

Post by VegasTim » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:01 pm

What's with the "exceeded max landing weight"? Got one for Albeo Cessna 207 landing with 1 pax, 929 lbs of cargo and 108 lbs of fuel. no deduction but notation on flight report.
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VegasTim
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Re: Penalty Updates

Post by VegasTim » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:14 am

OK, after doing some research here is the problem with max landing weight penalties...... FSA will load a top tier airline (rating 120) airplane full to the point it can exceed the max landing weight but not the gross takeoff weight.... so even if the pilot lands with fumes in the tanks, the exceeded max weight penalty will trigger. Currently there is no way to offload cargo/passengers to get under max landing weight, only to get under max takeoff weight. For example, I just landed a Cessna Caravan 208 with 141 lbs of fuel remaining but had max payload so got dinged with exceeded max landing weight. I checked the aircraft data and the max landing weight is correct. So somehow if we are going to play within the full rules of max landing weights, we will need the ability to pitch out pax or cargo before departure so we won't exceed max landing weight with target fuel remaining at destination.

LAS7111 departed with 8 pax + 1552 cargo with 300 lbs of fuel which put me at just under max takeoff weight.
Landed with 141 lbs of fuel and triggered exceeded max landing weight penalty.

Not sure there is an easy solution to this one....... as each pilot would have to know independently what his/her planes's max landing weight is, then add in planned fuel upon arrival to calculate the max payload that can be flown as it sure the heck is not max pax/cargo + minimal fuel.
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Buschpilot
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Re: Penalty Updates

Post by Buschpilot » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:37 am

Hello...

My example with the C208-Cargo.

The correct loading (fuel and cargo) in the C208-Cargo is a little cumbersome/difficult.
My calculation with the C208 Cargoversion would look like this ...

We have:
- empty weight = 4890lbs
- weight without fuel = 8499lbs (up to this weight, cargo is automatically loaded)
- max. landing weight = 8499lbs
- max. takeoff weight = 8807lbs (until here we still fill fuel)

100NM = approximately 242lbs of fuel consumption

We must be at landing below 8499lbs.

I then calculate so ...
250lbs of fuel for the flight distance of 100NM + 250lbs reserve to reach eventual alternative airport, makes a total fuel quantity of 500lbs ...
Thus, for me the C208 would have a takeoff weight of only 8650lbs, 500lbs of fuel and 3260lbs of cargo + 4890lbs of empty weight ...

How do we get this with the tracker?
- max. landing Weight (8499lbs) minus 8150lbs (3260lbs cargo + 4890lbs empty Weight) = 349lbs ...
- C208-Cargo is thus with 349lbs over the max. takeoff weight (8807lbs), so we then have a takeoff weight of 9156lbs ...
- only if we are above the max. takeoff weight, the load can be returned to the max. reduce takeoff weight ...
- now reduce cargo by 349lbs, so we get the max. takeoff weight (8807lbs) ...
- connect we reduce the fuel quantity (this one can always change) by 157lbs (8807lbs minus 8650lbs), so that we can reach our takeoff weight of 8650lbs ...


So I am really on the flight under the max. landing weight, I plan only with 151lbs over max. landing weight of 8499lbs.
If I then 250lbs fly, I am with 8400lbs under the max. landing weight.

So I have 8499lbs (max landing weight) plus 151lbs, a takeoff weight of 8650lbs ...
We pull off 250lbs (disposable fuel), make 8400lbs, minus 250lbs reserve fuel, make 8150lbs, which remains for cargo plus empty weight ...

Sounds harder than it really is.

A searate button to adjust PAX and cargo (as with the fuel) would obviously be much easier.
Best regards
Mike

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joefremont
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Re: Penalty Updates

Post by joefremont » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:35 pm

I see right now for the 208B Super Cargomaster the max zero fuel weight is equal to the max landing weight, this is most certainly incorrect, and I should probably go update all aircraft so that max landing weight is at least MZFW + 10% of fuel, but that is beside the point.

You can update the route itself to limit the passengers or cargo loaded.

I agree the cargo or pax should always be adjustable in the client and will try to get that updated into the next release candidate.
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Buschpilot
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Re: Penalty Updates

Post by Buschpilot » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:19 pm

Hello Joe...

For the max. landing weight with the C208-Cargo,
look here:http://cessna.txtav.com/en/turboprop/grand-caravan-ex
under "Specifications" and "Super Cargomaster EX"...
Best regards
Mike

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joefremont
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Re: Penalty Updates

Post by joefremont » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:29 pm

Buschpilot wrote:Hello Joe...

For the max. landing weight with the C208-Cargo,
look here:http://cessna.txtav.com/en/turboprop/grand-caravan-ex
under "Specifications" and "Super Cargomaster EX"...
Based on that I can see the DOW and max payload are both too high. But in that page you take the empty weight add the 'max payload' and it equals the landing weight. So I will reduce the max payload by 50 kg to give a 5% fuel buffer.
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VegasTim
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Re: Penalty Updates

Post by VegasTim » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:08 am

Well I cannot adjust the max payload currently as when I set up a configuration for less passengers, it just max's out the cargo. If I take full passengers, it maxes out the cargo and then when fueling I can reduce either pax or cargo but only to get below max takeoff weight.
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