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Pit stop!

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:32 am
by ygor_ma
Hi guys,

Im Ygor from brazil, and i have some ideas for routes creation. In real life sometimes, we make some refueling stops when we are making a very long flight.. But sometimes the airport is a small airport with a low rate of passanger circulation, but in fsairlines we need to make 2 routes, so when we stop, passengers hop out the plane(To the destination airport), and when we take off again the aircraft has 10 people inside, because of the low rate of passanger circulation. That result in a negative flight profit.

The main idea is:

-Make between the departure section and the destination section, a field to put an ICAO code for our refueling stop.( Like Refueling Stop ICAO: XXXX)
-Make an route(The final destination), then create the Major route, with an opition to mark "Connection" or "Refueling stop", and when we select a tab opens, on this tab we will have the routes leaving the middle destination.(Like this: first we create the route PHNL - RJAA, then we create the main route SBEG - PHNL the we click Connection with... > (Tab opens) PHNL - RJAA > Submit!)

For english errors, my sorry!

Re: Pit stop!

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:41 am
by alasizon
This has been brought up before.

In most cases, the places you would need to make stops at will have at least enough of a population to support the operations because most small town airfields don't have super long airstrips needed for the aircraft. (Though admittedly, most aircraft you would need to make fuel stops with just simply aren't designed for that route.)

Also, the way the flight profits work out, it would be semi-realistic. You wouldn't command 2x the ticket price in reality, but rather about the ticket price of the first section so you should lose less on the second part of the route than you made on first portion.

Re: Pit stop!

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:50 am
by alemaobaiano
Boa noite Ygor

I see that your example is based on your VAs flightplan, and it appears that you are hoping to run SBEG-PHNL-RJAA? Honolulu shows some 33,000 pax waiting so it shouldn't be a problem picking up new passengers for the second leg. Your VA has the MD11ER (can make both legs easily) and the B767-300 (marginal on the first leg) so you need 2000m runways and only need to pick up 323/269 pax, which is only 1% of the number available at PHNL.

It seems like an unnecessary complication to the system when two separate flights would achieve the same result. We operate quite a few flights with en-route stops (not always at major airports) and none of our pilots has ever had a problem picking up a full load for the subsequent leg. Is the movement at Honolulu so high that the passenger pool is exhausted?

You should also make more profit with two flights. Looking at our flightplan you can fly KEWR-SBGR-SUMU for V$594(V$450+V$144) or direct KEWR-SUMU for V$480.

Ate mais

Re: Pit stop!

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:03 am
by CAPFlyer
Additionally, remember that all passengers you "offload" at that airport are available at that airport until the end of the day. Thus, if you land there and then take off before the next day (or at least the flight is booked by then) you will still have that many passengers whether or not that many passengers were available prior to your landing. This was explained in another thread just a few days ago by Joe when discussing the availability of passengers at an airport.

Re: Pit stop!

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:12 am
by ygor_ma
Hello again

Yes i understood, but the problem is cargo profit, this is not a passenger flight, and SBEG(manaus) is one of the most active freight kind airport in brazil, and the flight with the MD11F, and B763F was a disarter! -23.000.000v$ (each one! with a multipiler of 400x(we are newbies here, we move to FSairlines, we have years of history and we dont want to start everything again).

Com o tempo estamos aprendendo, minhas desculpas!

Re: Pit stop!

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:34 pm
by alemaobaiano
Hi Ygor

As we were once a cargo only airline operating from Eduardo Gomes we have some experience in this area. Ultra long range pure cargo flights don't make much money on FSAirlines, much like the real world. The sweet spot for cargo is on routes between 500 and 1000 nm, anything over that and your fuel costs eat into your profits. IIRC the real VarigLog used to run the MD11F to Japan via Colombia, Panama, Mexico, Los Angeles, Seattle, and Anchorage. To fly cargo to Honolulu you should probably go SBEG-SKBO-MMTP-MMMX-KLAX-PHNL or something like that.

We made a lot of money with the MD11F/B763F once we restructured our routes and cut out anything over 1000nm except where there is no alternative, like Hawaii, but even then the flight would be the shortest possible.

As airlines we have no control over cargo prices so we need to adapt our operations to the system. This seems to be close to real world cargo operations, there are very few long range direct cargo flights in the real world. Those that do exist can charge a premium, something we can't do ATM on FSAirlines.

There are some very helpful people around here with a lot of experience on Flynet/FSAirlines, so your questions will normally be answered quickly, and if you don't ask, you don't learn.

Se quiser, pode mandar PM em portuguese.


Re: Pit stop!

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:41 pm
by CAPFlyer
Yes, your profits drop over 1000nm, but it doesn't make them unprofitable if you're operating them correctly. I've flown 3000+nm and make hansome profits on cargo-only flights. The trick is using the correct airplane and the correct routing. I've got a flight in the 747-200F that was 2271nm long and made me a profit (at 50x) just shy of 4 million. I have a DC-8-73 flight that burned WAY too much fuel (almost twice what it should have) because I was in a hurry and fighting headwinds and was 2800nm long that I still made (at 50x) 750,000. If you operate at Long Range Cruise and don't take too much extra fuel, you'll make good profits on flight of well over 4000 miles.

Also, realize that ultra-long-range flights on passenger aircraft aren't extremely profitable either. I flew a 747-400 with passengers 6000nm from Brisbane to Anchorage and came out making v$3.3 million (again, at 50x). So I flew a more efficient aircraft over twice as far as the 747-200F flight and made about 20% less.

Re: Pit stop!

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:10 pm
by alemaobaiano
True Chris, these flights can still work and we also had good profits with the B747-200F, better then more modern aircraft actually.


Re: Pit stop!

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:56 pm
by joefremont
To an extent we already do this, you can already divert during a flight to an unplanned airport. And then continue on to your final destination. You don't get to off load any cargo or pax, but if you want to offload, you should schedule it.