Aircraft leasing

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Stan
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Aircraft leasing

Post by Stan » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:52 am

I think once an airline goes inactive it should not be able to lease aircraft out.The way it is at the moment inactive airlines are driving down the leasing revenues for the airlines who are prepared to pay subscriptions.
I fully realise that the subscriptions are to fund replacement of servers etc to keep up with demand from the ever increasing number of pilots flying on the system but i dont think it is fair that the airlines that dont appreciate this can dictate the leasing price of any type of aircraft.
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by magoo043 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:06 am

If i can add something about inactive airline, i suggest also if they cannot have ability to buy aircraft, because without name a particilar inactive airline, i see one buying aircraft and after that put them in lease.
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by alemaobaiano » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:21 am

I'm in total agreement with you Stan, it's almost impossible to make a reasonable profit in the leasing market now due to some very low rates, to the point that we aren't even offering aircraft for lease any longer.

An inactive airline should be just that, inactive.

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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by alasizon » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:09 pm

I definitely agree with that Stan, long gone are the days where a B744 could fetch a $25mil.
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by CAPFlyer » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 am

If inactive airlines have aircraft on the market, it's because they were paying or they were from before the changeover. Once a VA is inactive, they can't buy or lease aircraft. I suspect that within the next month the problem will resolve itself unless one of the developers puts in scripting to prevent it (which I'm sure they'll consider doing if it's not too complex).
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by alasizon » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:17 pm

CAPFlyer wrote:If inactive airlines have aircraft on the market, it's because they were paying or they were from before the changeover. Once a VA is inactive, they can't buy or lease aircraft. I suspect that within the next month the problem will resolve itself unless one of the developers puts in scripting to prevent it (which I'm sure they'll consider doing if it's not too complex).
I know one of the main airlines in question has been inactive since the changeover and yet still has about 175 aircraft ready to be leased and their finances show they have been buying aircraft and leasing them.
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by CAPFlyer » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:44 pm

Hrm... I'll make sure that Konrad and Joe are aware. My understanding was that once your VA was inactive, you weren't supposed to be able to do anything with the VA, including buying and selling aircraft, much less leasing them.
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by magoo043 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:25 pm

OK, i will not name the inactive VA who buy everything and put them on leasing either if they are inactive, but go to Canada 3000 page (my VA), see finance page and check who as been buy one of my aircraft (a B737-400QC)
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by joefremont » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:49 pm

The question of what to do with inactive airlines is a bit of a puzzle to me. I agree that inactive airlines should not be allowed to lease, buy or sell aircraft. But I also don't want to start to dismantle airlines before an airline has had the chance to renew there memberships. One I idea I have that may help is that after a week of being inactive that the system should automatically remove from the market all the aircraft they have up for sale or lease.
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by alasizon » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:04 am

Perhaps in suggestion to what you said Joe, is that after a week, their finances are also frozen so they can not buy any aircraft.
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by CAPFlyer » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:00 am

Joe, how about this -

Day 0 - Airline Inactive
Day 1 - Book Flights unavailable
Day 5 - Transfer Aircraft unavailable. Notice sent to all VA's with aircraft leased from that VA that the VA is inactive and all aircraft on lease will be returned in 5 days unless they do so beforehand.
Day 7 - Lease Aircraft Unavailable, Buy/Sell Aircraft Unavailable
Day 10 - Aircraft on lease returned to airline
Day 90 - VA set to "suspended" status and removed from all lists (except Admins/Developer accessible ones)
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by joefremont » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:50 am

As of now inactive airlines can not buy, sell, maintain or transfer an aircraft. Aircraft that are already on the market for sale are still there. Leases that are still in effect. They already could not book flights.

It occurs to me that inactive airlines should not be allowed to enter into contracts or voluntarily spend money. So my idea is that aircraft on the market would be removed from the market within 24 hours, aircraft they had leased would be returned when there next lease payment is due, aircraft they have leased to other airlines would continue for the life of the contract (right now if an airline is deleted the ownership of the aircraft and the lease reverts to FSA Aviation).

I am not sure about suspending at 90 days. Right now we don't have the records to be sure how long, especially if an airlines premium pilot quits and goes somewhere else it will look like the airline has been inactive since the other pilots trial accounts expired. Unless one of the pilots keeps checking in every so often there accounts will be deleted after 90 days and with the last pilot the airline goes away too. If a pilot is trying to keep there airline alive until they have the time and funds to support it, I am fine with that.

Eventually we may introduce loans with automatic payments, parking fees, required aircraft maintenance, etc. If so they airlines funds will eventually bleed away and it fall into bankruptcy.
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by CAPFlyer » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:50 pm

Yeah, it was just an idea. The idea of having the phased "shutdown of operations" is so a VA can have time (if it's truly a money issue and they want to stay active) to bring it's fleet "home" before not being able to do anything so that they don't get stuck with the fleet to the four winds (something they work out in the real world too with airlines suspending operations), especially if they choose to merge within the 7 days after loosing premium status.

I'm just trying to make sure that we're fair in the process so that those whom are going inactive because they don't have a choice aren't completely "hung out to dry" the moment they loose premium, but we don't have an issue like we have now with a single VA operating for 3 months + without a premium account yet still making money on leasing aircraft.
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by flightsimer » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:37 am

I have stopped leasing as well as the prices have gone down to the point its not worth it to me. But it wasnt just from inactive airlines.

I know previously i had merged inactive airlines into my airline because the CEO didnt want to pay so it was possible previously. There also needs to be a way for these inactive airlines to continue to be able to merge into another airline if the ceo decides not to continue. Maybe make a "merge" button where an inactive airline can press this button once and it will allow them to sell all their aircraft to the airline in which they are merging with (that would have to picked from a dropdown list) and then lease a few a/c to transfer their money at the end once all aircraft are sold.

In all honesty, i think if an airline goes 90 days, they should be deleted permanately. I can understand a month as things can happen, but 3 in a row is excessive and they probably arent going to return.
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Re: Aircraft leasing

Post by CAPFlyer » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:49 pm

If it's inactive for 90 days it will get deleted unless someone signs on during that time because all the pilots in the VA will be removed. :)

As for leasing - we've definitely fixed the inactive VA issue for leasing so the prices should be back up to where you guys can make a profit on them.
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