FSA Client Landing Light Detection

[Buzz313th]

I would like to request a feature added to the client where we can include the landing light penalty or not include the landing light penalty.

I have numerous high quality payware aircraft where the developers have used the FSX landing light function for some other purpose and when using these addons with FSA the client forces a landing light penalty either because the addon has the FSX trigger for the landing light always on or always off with no way to control it.

I understand that this problem is due to the addon developers not coding the LL trigger as per the SDK. Thats fine in my book, since alot of these addons like the Maddog or digital aviations addons are absolutely brilliant and without the "out of the box" programing that they use to achieve this high quality, then we would be left with freeware quality addons and not as much reality and functionality.

I have read the threads pertaining to the maddog landing light problem and that aircraft is the entire reason why I am requesting this. I have spent a good part of two days trying to get the maddog to turn off the FSX LL trigger, but I have had no luck. By adding a landing light in the config file of the maddog to turn on a vc light I realise that the maddog turns on the LL trigger whenever the DC power is on in the aircraft. Conrol+L will turn off the Landing Light, but coding in the panel turns it right back on.

The developers such as Leonardo and Digital Aviation WILL NOT recode thier aircraft unless there is a problem or bug. Compatibility with other software is not thier concern as long as the software works properly with FSX as intended. With this being said, I ask, or may I say plead with the developers of FSA to give us a workaround to alow us to fly these complex 3rd party addons that seem to have issues with the landing lights.

Again, please give us the option to enable/disable the landing light penalty within the client.

Thank you...

JB

[alasizon]

I have to disagree with this, it gives people the option to just skip out on the penalty all together regardless of the model type and whether or not it follows the FS normal guidelines. I think if we allowed them to be turned off, people would just leave their lights off all together.

[Buzz313th]

I have to disagree with this, it gives people the option to just skip out on the penalty all together regardless of the model type and whether or not it follows the FS normal guidelines. I think if we allowed them to be turned off, people would just leave their lights off all together.

How about imposing another penalty, one that doesn't involve a hit to the pilots rating. I would happily take a sallary penalty, or some other penalty that won't affect the airlines reputation to sim in a complex addon. To be worried about people turning off the landing light penalty vs some of the other obvious loopholes seems rediculous. Example one... Unfortunately the client doesn't mandate the load in the aircraft other than fuel. An aircraft like a heavy that carries roughly 50% of it's Max takeoff weight in pax or cargo can get twice the range/burn half the fuel if the FSA player decides he/she doesn't wanna load the pax or cargo. In my mind thats a bigger loophole to the ballance of FSA than whether or not we turn the Landing Lights on or not.

My point is this... It's not brain surgery to turn off the darn landing lights. In real life you set the alt selector to 10k and when the anucation goes off you know you have 1000 feet to setup the plane for 240 and lights on... And another thing, the regulation to turn the landing lights on doesn't involve the "Landing Lights", it requires recognition lights and or landing lights. There are many planes in real life that arent using the landing lights to leave the terminal area, these planes use the recognition lights to save the life on the gear or inboard wing mounted landing lights. Once again, I can name atleast 20 planes off the top of my head that automatically trip the circuit on the gear mounted lights when the gear is retracted.

I don't fly in FSA because I want to fly in FSA. I fly in FSA because it gives me a motivation to fly the complex addons I own. FSA gives me groundwork or foundation to flesh out my sim experience. My first priority will be to fly what I want. My second will be to round out my experience with something like FSA, FSE or just another VA.

I don't think it's a big deal to accomidate the addons that require the landing light toggle. I for one will try to strive for as much realism as possible, so when I am not flying the Maddog, I WILL be turning the penalty back on.

JB

[flightsimer]

its also not a fsx problem... i have used fsx strictly with FSA and have never once had a problem.

[Buzz313th]

its also not a fsx problem... i have used fsx strictly with FSA and have never once had a problem.

I never mentioned it was an FSX problem... The problem is that the programers are using the FSX landing light trigger for some other purpose. In the case of the maddog, a gauge or some DLL is making sure the FSX landing light trigger is always on when there is DC power to the Buss. The FSX command to turn off the landing light will infact turn it off, but a second later the maddog programing turns it back on again. In the case of digital aviation, they use the FSX landing light function to power the backlighted gauges and panels. These are all tricks of the trade that the Addon programers have been using to get the most functionality out of FS since FS9.

Can't there be a way for a workaround?

JB

[CAPFlyer]

My point is this... It's not brain surgery to turn off the darn landing lights. In real life you set the alt selector to 10k and when the anucation goes off you know you have 1000 feet to setup the plane for 240 and lights on... And another thing, the regulation to turn the landing lights on doesn't involve the "Landing Lights", it requires recognition lights and or landing lights. There are many planes in real life that arent using the landing lights to leave the terminal area, these planes use the recognition lights to save the life on the gear or inboard wing mounted landing lights. Once again, I can name atleast 20 planes off the top of my head that automatically trip the circuit on the gear mounted lights when the gear is retracted.

The FSAirlines penalty is, has been, and always will be, that you are not dinged for the landing lights "penalty" as long as they're ON below 1000 feet AGL and OFF above 10,000 feet MSL (with a 3000 foot AGL buffer built in when operating out of high altitude airports). Also, as on all of the aircraft you are thinking of, the gear mounted lights are not landing lights. They may have a "landing" mode/setting, but those gear mounted lights are not the primary landing lights. They are either taxi lights, auxilliary lights, or runway turnoff lights. Either way, when properly programmed, you can get the effect of these lights turning off when the gear retracts without using the "Landing Light" tags. In fact, PMDG does it quite well with their aircraft.

Thus, we're not operating in contravention with any regulations or normal operating procedures. In addition, landing an airplane on a revenue flight with the landing lights off, even in daytime, can result in certificate action against the pilot, so it is definitely valid to have a pilot reputation hit when you fail to comply with the regulations.

As for the developers - I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for their inability to properly use the SDK and capabilities of Flight Simulator without using "tricks". Certain things must be done outside the simulator, but their use of basic functions of the sim for things other than their purpose is not only pointless, but it causes incompatibilities with a myriad of other programs. There is no excuse for their poor programming and development skills, plain-and-simple. It's a crutch to design basic operations outside the system, and as such, the users, who paid money for it, have a right to demand they remove the crutch and fix their program.

Remember, as a PAYING USER of these addons, you have the right to demand a developer fix them. Their product is fundamentally flawed in its design, and thus you have every right to demand they fix it. As it is a very small portion of the addons (pay or free) that have this problem, we as a network have little reason to spend time creating specific accommodations for them as it causes more problems than it fixes.

[Buzz313th]

I think I just found an answer as long as the devs are willing to make the change to the client (god I wish I knew how to program). Anyway... Put a button on the client window when the client is in flight mode (after you have loaded the aircraft and started the flight on the client) that toggles the status of the landing light on the client only. This would enable us to turn on and off the landing light trigger on the client only. In the example of the maddog, where the addon forces the landing light on at all times, one could click the "Landing light" toggle button on the client before crossing 10k in a climb, which would turn off the landing light trigger on the client only. Then when in descent, one would click the "Landing Light" toggle button on the client when crossing 10k thus turning on the client "Landing Light" trigger. In a nutshell, it would allow us to fly the addons with the landing light issue, without having to disable the penalty at all...

Seems like a good compromise. Either way, you still need to adhere to the rules, just need to turn on and off the Landing Lights from the client instead of the aircraft panel.

JB

[Quantum]

Hi,

I'll give my tuppence here. I suppose whichever a/c or software you use is down to you the user. Asking any developer to change their coding to keep a minority of users happy because they want to use a combination of a/c and software which causes a conflict is a big ask and why should they. You happily bought the add-on aircraft and have to accept its gremlins unless you can convince the developers to change it, have you asked them? I am sure the % users of the Maddog (e.g.) which also use FSA is very very small. Likewise the % users of FSA that also use the Maddog will be small.

As much as possible, once you have refuelled your aircraft all client functions should be monitored from inputs within the sim so to put a 'switch' in the client to turn on/off your lights is a no-go in my book. If all your FSA flying is done on the maddog and you got no penalties other than the landing lights then your rating will never drop below 95% which is a good overall rating. Any flying not done in the Maddog will slowly increase your rating.

Regards

John

[Buzz313th]

Hi,

I'll give my tuppence here. I suppose whichever a/c or software you use is down to you the user. Asking any developer to change their coding to keep a minority of users happy because they want to use a combination of a/c and software which causes a conflict is a big ask and why should they. You happily bought the add-on aircraft and have to accept its gremlins unless you can convince the developers to change it, have you asked them? I am sure the % users of the Maddog (e.g.) which also use FSA is very very small. Likewise the % users of FSA that also use the Maddog will be small.

As much as possible, once you have refuelled your aircraft all client functions should be monitored from inputs within the sim so to put a 'switch' in the client to turn on/off your lights is a no-go in my book. If all your FSA flying is done on the maddog and you got no penalties other than the landing lights then your rating will never drop below 95% which is a good overall rating. Any flying not done in the Maddog will slowly increase your rating.

Regards

John

It's not that big of a "ask" considering it's not just the maddog that is having Land light issues. I believe there are atleast 4-5 payware addons that have been mentioned in the forums. Whats the big deal about having a switch in the client?

I am waiting on forum aproval at the maddog forums to ask them if they have a workaround.


And whats the big deal about having a switch in the client? You would use it if you need to. It seems that the only reason you don't like the idea, is because of the principal of having to fix something that shoulda been done correctly by the addon dev. Maybe leonardo couldn't recreate the lighting systems in the MD-80 without doing what they did. The panel has a 3 position switch for the nosegear light and 2x3 position switches for the rectractable wing lights and in FSX they all work as they do on the MD-80.

Out of many, too many 3rd party addons, I have found the Maddog Pro to be the most complete simulation of anything out there right now. It's a complete shame that there are no proponents for a simple fix to help include other aircraft into the working order of FSA.

JB

[CAPFlyer]

JB - it is a big "ask" because it requires that the way the client works be changed. Instead of having a single "write" function (for fuel), it will have 2. This is not necessarily an easy task to do. The client is, and should remain as passive as possible to work with the maximum number of addons. Adding a "landing lights" switch on the client will require not-insignificant testing to ensure it works decently well before putting it up to the users. In addition, what happens when it messes up the passive detection and people start to complain about that?

In addition - the issue is that the large majority of aircraft don't have this problem. As you said, there are only 4 or 5 addons which have had the problem. There are literally thousands out there. In addition, there are over 200 different aircraft types "supported" by FSAirlines at this moment. That means that at most, only 3% of all of the aircraft types supported might have a problem. Your opinion is that the "MadDog" addon is the best out there. From a programming point of view, I did and still do find it to be one of the worst simply because it assumes that FS9 & FSX can't do many of the basic functions which it has always done well. This is a problem more than just Leonardo have, but they are the only ones who seem to take it to the extreme and make almost all of the functions external to the sim instead of internal. There are other addons out there with all of the same features, even if not on the same airframe, and they do it without the crutches they use instead of just taking the time to do it right.

[ukd113]

It is ask for many times, but it is "take it or leave it", with some good addon planes on FSA as far as I can see.

Make a poll on the issue, and see what comes out to close the topic forever.

Gr Ruud

[Buzz313th]

It is ask for many times, but it is "take it or leave it", with some good addon planes on FSA as far as I can see.

Make a poll on the issue, and see what comes out to close the topic forever.

Gr Ruud

Thanks, but a poll won't do any good if the Devs don't wanna do it.

I am still waiting on Forum rights at Leonardo to ask if they have a workaround.

Unfortunately the support over there is horrible, not as good as it is here. So I have a feeling there isn't gonna be a solution.

JB