Routes

You are missing something, or have a cool idea for us ? Tell us here !

Moderator: FSAirlines Staff

User avatar
e.rossiter
Ticket Agent
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: Albury (Australia)

Routes

Post by e.rossiter » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:37 pm

For each flight we should have pre-programmed in routes. I know that when you book a flight it has a spot for routes, however most pilots would not look there, and also some Airlines probably don't worry about entering them in there.

A different route can affect your flight time, and fuel used on the trip therefore making you either late or early in time. It doesn't affect the small trips as much, but further distanced trips it affects quiet heavily. Even though these routes are the Realistic Routes.

What I believe should happen is that when the pilot is selecting the flight they get another option after the flight and aircraft is picked, and that is the route they wish to take, being either direct, Jet aircraft route, or prop route. Then once they select that in their flight plan it lists the way points. And the flight time is adjusted to suit the distances. These routes could either be added by the admin staff, or when the airlines are adding their flights in another thing they could enter is the possible routes.

The real life routes are quit easy to find and there are a number of websites around to find them. Some websites are: And there are many more out there.

This would add another realistic aspect to the flights, and assist with users who use other programs along with FSAirlines like VATSIM for a Virtual Air Traffic Control Network which require realistic routes.

Another aspect that could be added after that would be SID's (Standard Instrument Departure) and STAR's (Standard Arrival Route).
ImageImage
Image

alemaobaiano
Captain
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:32 am
Location: Sao Paulo, Brasil

Re: Routes

Post by alemaobaiano » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:05 pm

Edward, it's a nice idea, but we come up against the old "why are you on FSAirlines?" question.

Not every airline is interested in realistic flight planning, or realistic operations for that matter. Some are looking to make as much money as possible, in the shortest time. Some airlines operate with more realism. At the moment FSAirlines can cater for both types of user, and any step in between, which leads to a large user base. If more realism was introduced (whatever happened to that survey, BTW?) I suspect that quite a few VAs would leave, and the casual simmer might be put off joining.

VATSIM already has a reputation for the actions of the realism "police" (deserved or not is another question) and as such is viewed as elitist. FSAirlines is a much more open structure and attracts many different simmers from many parts of the world, and is able to give them what they are looking for.

Nothing prevents VAs using real world preferred routes, all of our planning in South America is done with actual high and low level charts, and relevant approach charts. It's something that we enjoy doing, but we don't expect others to do the same, if they choose not to. We would love to see more realism, but it's not our train set so we don't set the rules, and the service is free :D

TTFN
Image

Motomad1
Flight Attendant
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:59 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Routes

Post by Motomad1 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 am

It would be great if FSA was more realist :D
ImageImage
Image

alasizon
FSAirlines DB and Wiki Admin
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:08 am
Location: PHX

Re: Routes

Post by alasizon » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:15 am

Motomad1 wrote:It would be great if FSA was more realist :D
Then comes along the people that say if you want realism to go to IVAO or VATSIM. Others argue that its a "game" and should be less realistic than the real world. So either way, there are people on each side of the argument.
Matt-FSAirlines DB Admin
Image

vaccaro
Captain
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:03 pm

Re: Routes

Post by vaccaro » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:16 am

I take flightsimming as a game when it comes to fly the a/c. Thus, less realistic a/c (like, Overland instead of PMDG and/or Wilco, SGA instead of Maddog and such). FSNavigator instead of a MCDU or a FMC. This also depends on the funds you can raise for simming.
But on the other hand, I prefer my routes are close to real ones. The problem is, my airline doesn't imitate a real one. Therefore, there are only a few direct real world routes for example from/to MKJP (Kingston Jamaica).
I usually use enroute charts to create a route. Also flightaware is a very good option.
I just don't think routefinder (free edition) is always providing you with a correct routing.
To conclude. I don't care how much other airlines at FSA earn, how many pilots they have, how big their fleet is etc. I only care about my airline and the satisfaction I get from a flight after a busy work day :)

Cheers,

Motomad1
Flight Attendant
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:59 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Routes

Post by Motomad1 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:27 am

alasizon wrote:
Motomad1 wrote:It would be great if FSA was more realist :D
Then comes along the people that say if you want realism to go to IVAO or VATSIM. Others argue that its a "game" and should be less realistic than the real world. So either way, there are people on each side of the argument.
Yer fair enough if you look at it that way.
ImageImage
Image

User avatar
e.rossiter
Ticket Agent
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: Albury (Australia)

Re: Routes

Post by e.rossiter » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:41 am

alemaobaiano wrote:Edward, it's a nice idea, but we come up against the old "why are you on FSAirlines?" question.

Not every airline is interested in realistic flight planning, or realistic operations for that matter. Some are looking to make as much money as possible, in the shortest time. Some airlines operate with more realism. At the moment FSAirlines can cater for both types of user, and any step in between, which leads to a large user base. If more realism was introduced (whatever happened to that survey, BTW?) I suspect that quite a few VAs would leave, and the casual simmer might be put off joining.

VATSIM already has a reputation for the actions of the realism "police" (deserved or not is another question) and as such is viewed as elitist. FSAirlines is a much more open structure and attracts many different simmers from many parts of the world, and is able to give them what they are looking for.

Nothing prevents VAs using real world preferred routes, all of our planning in South America is done with actual high and low level charts, and relevant approach charts. It's something that we enjoy doing, but we don't expect others to do the same, if they choose not to. We would love to see more realism, but it's not our train set so we don't set the rules, and the service is free :D

TTFN
This is the reason why in the routes we would offer the direct route, then the realistic ones in the options after they select their flight and aircraft. The direct route could be used by the people who just want to fly, for the money or fun, whereas the realistic one could be used by realistic pilots.
ImageImage
Image

User avatar
CAPFlyer
Chief Pilot
Posts: 3045
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:49 am
Location: Lancaster, Texas, USA
Contact:

Re: Routes

Post by CAPFlyer » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:38 pm

The Admins position -

If you want "realistic" routing (or any routing at all) that's what you fill into the "Route" section of the flightplan. Just cut-and-paste. Look at various VA's. If they have a preferred routing for pilots to use, it's right there. All you have to do is cut-and-paste it into your favorite flight planning software and have it generate the proper file for whatever addon you wish to use it with. FSBuild, SimRoutes, vRoute, and EuroBook all will give you files in the proper format for FSINN, SquawkBox, and both sims in addition to various addons like FSNavigator, FSCommander, and FMCs for PMDG and other publishers.
Image

User avatar
joefremont
FSAirlines Developer
Posts: 3694
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 5:46 am
Location: KSFO

Re: Routes

Post by joefremont » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:12 pm

We could put something into the system so that if you put waypoints in your route data, the pilot has to go to those points or take a penalty, but we would first have to get a database of all those waypoints and there coordinates.
Image
I've sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the lands.

User avatar
flightsimer
Chief Pilot
Posts: 1815
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:35 am

Re: Routes

Post by flightsimer » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:38 am

joefremont wrote:We could put something into the system so that if you put waypoints in your route data, the pilot has to go to those points or take a penalty, but we would first have to get a database of all those waypoints and there coordinates.
as an option?
Owner/CEO
North Eastern Airways

Image
Image

User avatar
joefremont
FSAirlines Developer
Posts: 3694
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 5:46 am
Location: KSFO

Re: Routes

Post by joefremont » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:03 am

flightsimer wrote:
joefremont wrote:We could put something into the system so that if you put way points in your route data, the pilot has to go to those points or take a penalty, but we would first have to get a database of all those way points and there coordinates.
as an option?
IF we were to implement something like this, it would be optional, if you don't enter the way points its not to use them. The harder part for me is getting that world wide list of way points, I did some quick searches today and was not able to find a list we could use.
Image
I've sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the lands.

Motomad1
Flight Attendant
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:59 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Routes

Post by Motomad1 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:07 am

joefremont wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
joefremont wrote:We could put something into the system so that if you put way points in your route data, the pilot has to go to those points or take a penalty, but we would first have to get a database of all those way points and there coordinates.
as an option?
IF we were to implement something like this, it would be optional, if you don't enter the way points its not to use them. The harder part for me is getting that world wide list of way points, I did some quick searches today and was not able to find a list we could use.
that would be a good idea with the peaniltys, but as other people have said that not everyone wants it realistic so have it optional for those route peniltys. :mrgreen:
ImageImage
Image

alasizon
FSAirlines DB and Wiki Admin
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:08 am
Location: PHX

Re: Routes

Post by alasizon » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:13 am

From the way I read it was if you want to follow the routes you can and if you don't you follow the route correctly like you were supposed to, you get the penalty.
Matt-FSAirlines DB Admin
Image

User avatar
e.rossiter
Ticket Agent
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: Albury (Australia)

Re: Routes

Post by e.rossiter » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:28 am

Have it so that the pilot can choose to use the route provided, or not. The people who chose not won't get any penalties, however people who choose to use the route should have the penalties. And there are a whole heap of websites which create the routes for you. You just have to select where you start and where you are going to and it will generate it. However some routes are for Jets, others are for Props.
ImageImage
Image

vaccaro
Captain
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:03 pm

Re: Routes

Post by vaccaro » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:50 am

The penalty thing isn't that good.
Apart from being realistic, there is also another little problem for those flying online.
The human ATCO might send you direct to a fix.
So, instead of a penalty system FSA can implement a bonus system. If you follow a route you get something extra and if you don't nothing will be given.
Cheers,

Locked