Private Aircraft Rental

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Dave Athay
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Post by Dave Athay » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:24 am

That works great as long as the plane you're flying is (at least slightly) profitable. I really enjoy flying the King Air and other planes that just don't carry enough passengers to make a profit at coach fares, and it's kind of a bummer to have your losses multiplied by a few hundred. So, I just suck it up and pay for it out-of-pocket on a "private" flight. The King Air costs about v$800/hr. (including fuel and maintenance) to operate, which is actually a very realistic number.

I've been thinking about this, and I guess it should go in the "new ideas" forum: What about private aircraft rentals? Maybe VAs and/or individuals could rent planes to each other? It could work just like the leasing feature, except they'd be by the hour instead of by the day. And maybe in the absence of any other aircraft, "FlyNET Aviation" could rent out a C172S for v$120/hr. at every airport in the database, or something like that.

Private flights are a fun side of FlyNET. Anybody who flies jets on here fairly regularly can afford to "buy" their own plane. If you want a good traveling machine, I added the Mooney 201 to the database last week... Jet Rangers are unnaturally cheap. Tell me where I can find a like-new Bell 206 in the real world for $120,000 and I'll make us both rich.

Since the "money" on here isn't really good for anything else, ya might as well blow it on airplanes. Private airplanes are money pits in real life too, if you just look at the numbers. But money is, after all, just money. What's the point of having it if you can't do what you want with it? To own an airplane is to be free to travel where you want, when you want. Like the credit card commercial says, that's "priceless" :wink:
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CAPFlyer
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Post by CAPFlyer » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:38 am

Dave, I love this idea.

To expound on how I think it could work -

We setup a dialogue when you go to your private hangar that you click that says "Rent an Airplane" or a drop-down list that lets you switch between "My Airplanes" and "Rental Airplanes". We then setup the system to allow you to select from a list (like you would now for the "owned" planes in your hangar) that says the aircraft type (i.e. Cessna 172) and registration (appropriate for your present location or customizable) and the cost per hour to rent it. The Rental Rate would be a "dry" rate per hour, which is the price to rent it without paying for gas (~$35/hr for a C172 or ~$150 for a Baron). You would then fly the plane and at the end of the flight be assesed for the fuel bought and the time used. Any fuel you bought that you didn't use over what was already in the tanks will be refunded to you (this is how most FBO's and clubs do it in real life when charging "dry" rates).

I know some will complain that it keeps VA's out of the rental business, but in the real world, there are regulations that make it very difficult (both economically and in terms of insurance) to own a "rental" fleet of smaller aircraft in addition to full-sized airplanes. Yes, several have flight academies (especially in Europe), but those aren't open to the public to rent from. This way also removes any of the frustrations of having to buy a ticket to the airport where the rental aircraft is at or pay for the aircraft to be "ferried" to your location and just lets you fly.

Also, I would restrict the list of available airplanes to anything of BizJet size and under, but not including the ACJ or BBJ.
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flightsimer
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Post by flightsimer » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:53 am

no you gotta let the BBJ in... but dont let the Airbus one in... :D
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Post by Airboatr » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:30 am

could add some of the classic fighter jet aircraft
two seaters so we could haul a meal ticket.
..............people would easily pay thousands for a ride in one

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Post by CAPFlyer » Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:31 am

Again, this is not a money-making proposition. Please do not try to turn it into one. This is simply to give pilots the opprotunity to fly "private" flights on FlyNET without having to necessarily save up to buy the whole airplane if they don't want to. Discuss other subjects in their appropriate thread, there is already one on "classic jets" as you put it and the issue has been addressed.
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Dave Athay
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Post by Dave Athay » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:55 pm

CAPFlyer,

Right on. I really think there should be a way for people to rent aircraft without having to save up to buy them. This will make private flights accessible to many more people. I hope something to this effect can be worked out. :D
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Post by joefremont » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:34 pm

Interesting idea, I like it. Would there be rentable aircraft situated at various airports waiting for pilots?
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Dave Athay
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Post by Dave Athay » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 pm

I think there should be at least one Cessna 172 for rent at every airport. This should be made available by the FlyNET system. This is pretty realistic, as the 'Hawk is the backbone of the rental fleet in the US, and you can find one for rent at practically every municipal airport. Not sure about places abroad.

Otherwise I think aircraft owners should have the option of putting theirs up for rent when they're not using them. This is also pretty realistic.

There could be more types available for rent, and I definitely agree that there should be limits on size here. Renting a 747 is kind of beyond the point of my idea. Some potential issues I see are:

1) Does FlyNET create an aircraft in the database for each on to be rented out, or do we just come up with some "rental" aircraft that isn't kept track of in terms of location and fuel? This is an issue because if each airport only has one (or some other set number), what happens when it gets flown to the next airport over the hill? A possible fix would be to automatically transfer the aircraft back to its airport of origin, or just set a penalty if the renter doesn't bring it back at the end of a specified amount of time and THEN transfer it back automatically.

2) Implementation. Knowing only enough about programming to make me dangerous and confused, it seems like it would be fairly straightforward to transfer over the same "leasing" system that's in use on the VA side of FlyNET to the private side, as was done with the traders' list. This would limit aircraft availability to planes and places defined directly by the owners of private aircraft.

Anyway, I'm glad to see there's interest in this topic. Hope we can work something out so it's easier to enjoy private flights in more places. Some folks can afford to buy a little Cessna or Jet Ranger for sightseeing at all of our favorite destinations around the world, but I imagine most of us would (realistically!) prefer to rent at their favorite virtual vacation spots.

Happy flying!
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Post by CAPFlyer » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:14 am

Joe, I was thinking more of "virtual" aircraft which aren't really tracked except in each pilot's logbook. That way the plane comes to you empty and leaves empty since you get refunded the price of any fuel left over when you're done with the airplane. It also eliminates the need to place aircraft at airports and deal with what happens if it gets flown from A to B and not returned.
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Airboatr

Post by Airboatr » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:51 am

CAPFlyer wrote:Again, this is not a money-making proposition. Please do not try to turn it into one. This is simply to give pilots the opprotunity to fly "private" flights on FlyNET without having to necessarily save up to buy the whole airplane if they don't want to. Discuss other subjects in their appropriate thread, there is already one on "classic jets" as you put it and the issue has been addressed.
Removed for violation of Forum Rules.

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Post by CAPFlyer » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:52 pm

Joe, please respect the forum rules. Your post was nothing more than a personal attack on me.

You did suggest trying to make it a money maker. Your statement that "people would pay thousands to fly in one" is again a suggestion that people should be able to make money flying their personal aircraft. Whether they make a profit or not isn't the issue, it's still a making money to offset the costs, which is something that's been vetoed in the past by Konny.
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Airboatr

Post by Airboatr » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:20 pm

I Did Not Suggest To MAke it a "Money Maker" ANd DOn't Put Words In My Mouth

JEts Ain't cheap to fly AND MAINTAIN AND since you delated all of my Post
THAT clearly pointed out That the excessive cost would off set any
premium a rider would pay. You are making me look like I royaly flamed you
and now you've edited you post from the first reply just above this one
your rewording ,,,,, things CHris

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Post by CAPFlyer » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:18 pm

Joe, look at your own post. You used the words "haul a meal ticket". That is suggesting making money on a private flight. I can't say this any clearer - Konny said that he wasn't going to impliment any sort of cost offest or money making on private flights for the forseeable future, yet you keep bringing it back up. You are suggesting making money on a private flight, and I am not putting words in your mouth. Just read up the page at your second post.
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Airboatr

Post by Airboatr » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:44 pm

look chris
to offset
to make even
doesn;t imply a gain
...............thats it.
have a good day

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