leasing suggestion

Post by **joefremont** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:18 am

I think the deductible in the leases is a good step in the right direction, I had a few ideas I would like to propose on how to make leasing a little more flexible.

When the aircraft owner puts an aircraft up for lease the would enter the following information.

Initial payment:
- The amount the client would pay for the first week of the lease.
Weekly payment:
- The amount the client would pay for the second and later weeks of the lease, if the lease ends in the middle of the week the last week would be prorated.
Period:
- The length of the lease in days (same as now).
Home base:
- The airport the aircraft must be returned to when the lease expires, or blank if it does not need to be returned to a specific airport.
Minimum status:
- At the end of lease, the aircraft must be repaired at the clients cost if the repair status is below this level.
Deposit:
- Paid upfront by the client, costs to repair aircraft at the end of the lease or return to home base would be deducted from this before the remainder is returned to the client. The client would still be required to pay costs in excess of the deposit.

A couple other suggestions.

The client should be able to end a lease early after 8 days (no refund of payments).
There should be some limit to how much owners should be able to charge for open leases, to prevent new users from being taken advantage of, maybe 1% of the aircraft's value per day. This would still allow owners to make a 365% return of the course of a year. Private leases would not be restricted.

flightsimer · Post by **flightsimer** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:06 am

joefremont wrote:
The client should be able to end a lease early after 8 days (no refund of payments).

as soon as u lease the aircraft it should be able to be cancelled. ive tried along with others to get that added. they never answered about it. it really needs to be added though...

Post by **Konny** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:46 pm

Sounds good to me. And I also agree with flightsimer, clients should be allowed to end a leasing anytime. It doesn't really matter because they would have paid for the first week anyway.

flightsimer · Post by **flightsimer** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:00 pm

but maybe when they cancel they would have to pay the whole amount though or have a cancellation fee.

Post by **joefremont** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:47 pm

The reason I suggested the 8 days was if the aircraft owner gave a lower rate for the first week they would still get some money, but if its not a popular suggestion I will withdraw it.

flightsimer · Post by **flightsimer** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:05 pm

this is just a sugestion, but maybe the way to have it is like i said above, have it so that the leasee can cancel at anytime, but either has to pay a cancellation fee or pay the whole amount.

Shodan · Post by **Shodan** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Now that we pay a deposit on leasing, could an automated message be sent when the lease expires, telling the leasee if they get their deposit back or not ...... dont pay enough attention to my bank balance to know whether its been returned or not

Regards

Shodan
CEO HarpAir

vaccaro · Post by **vaccaro** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:34 pm

Hi,
Istead of opening a new topic I'd like to ask if it is possible to implement a feature to avoid changing the leased a/c registration.
Cheers,

Post by **joefremont** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:28 pm

vaccaro wrote:Hi,
Istead of opening a new topic I'd like to ask if it is possible to implement a feature to avoid changing the leased a/c registration.
Cheers,

Yes I agree, this has been discussed before. http://flynet.turksim.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2523

Post by **joefremont** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:47 pm

joefremont wrote:
vaccaro wrote:Hi,
Istead of opening a new topic I'd like to ask if it is possible to implement a feature to avoid changing the leased a/c registration.
Cheers,
Yes I agree, this has been discussed before. http://flynet.turksim.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2523

Done.

flightsimer · Post by **flightsimer** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:46 pm

yes, i think there would be an easy way arround this though. let them change it, make it so that once the lease is over the a/c automatically goes back to what the owner has it set for.

Shodan · Post by **Shodan** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:19 pm

Having read a few of these threads on leasing, I get the impression that the majority of people who post on this forum are leasors, not leasees.

I am a one-man band, who has no interest in acquiring large fleets of aircraft to lease, I have what planes I need and lease ones to cover the times my own are in service.

From a leasees point of view, leasing is becoming a waste of time. With the huge deposits and requirement to have the plane A-checked before return, its easier to just buy a 2nd a/c to cover the wait for the one being services or fly something else in the meantime.

An example, I needed my 747 A-checked, so wanted to lease one for One Day to cover the wait. I found one on the list but it had a $22m deposit, and needed to be 100% on return ... Since I would only have flown this 2-3 times at best in 24hrs, the probability is that it would have been at 99.8%-99.9% after that. I doubt anyone would normally put a 747 in for an A-check at this level ... especially at a cost of around $6.5m

So the one day lease, which looked promising at $1m for the day, actually was $7.5m with a $22m deposit ... not such a good deal.... I ended up flying one of my other a/c while the jumbo was being serviced.

I fully understand you guys wanting to protect your investment, but lets not go too overboard or you will kill off your own market.

............... just a leasees point of view

Shodan

vaccaro · Post by **vaccaro** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:23 pm

Shodan, I can understand your point but, all those requirements are the fruits of previous experiences.
I once had to pay more than I have earned because some airline returned my a/c in 95% condition.
I am quite sure other leasers too have their personal experiences about this problem.
I personally don't mind if leasee returns my a/c to the airport where (s)he has taken. All I want is to get my a/c back in the conditions that I have given to them, thus 100%, and a simple "do not change the registration" limitation.
IMHO, you can also negotiate directly with the owner of the a/c for a special price and conditions.
Air Mermaid for example from time to time leases a/c without deposit but a 100% of state condition.
Cheers,

Shodan · Post by **Shodan** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:19 pm

Thank you for replying Vaccaro.

To continue playing 'Devil's Advocate' let me say..

We all live in a world where the 'politically correct' get us to comply with rules that are seemingly 'over the top', to cater for the few who are easily offended.

Here, we are making rules to compensate for the idiots who TRY to make it hard on the leasors. I have read the threads here and wonder .... just how many times do you have to nosedive a plane, to get it down to 45% (as I read in one thread) .. and then wonder ........ if that was by accident?

I am new here ... I have already made more mistakes than I am willing to admit (finding this forum has helped me correct a lot of them ... thank you all) .... all I am trying to point out is ..... spare a thought for the honest new guys .. who are still learning about FlyNet .. and will shy away from leasing at draconian prices.

... ok ... I have passengers waiting to go to KATL gotta go ...

Shodan

vaccaro · Post by **vaccaro** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:30 pm

Drop me a line when you need something from my fleet

As told before all the requirement is to return the a/c in 100% and maybe more important keep the rego

FSAirlines

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