Hubs

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:58 pm

Many Airlines operate HUBS in certain cities, and they have specialized contracts to do so.

I was thinking,

Say you operate out of an airport. You pay 100 million to build a Hub there. In exchange for that, fuel costs 10-20% less, and Catering costs for your flight are decreased by 40%.

Keep in mind that even though the fuel savings are large, you've spent the equivalent of a 300 seat airliner getting the discounts, and only for flights orginating from the airport.

COmments, improvements, suggestions?

BigQ · Post by **BigQ** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:51 pm

Maybe not 100 mil, but 50 mil is definately manageable...

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:03 am

True, but for that huge fuel discount, a one time payment of 100 million is very reasonable. Hubs (with your own gates and services) cost a lot of money and are usually only opened by the large airlines. having a 100 million price tag means airlines must become established before they can open a hub. With Wardair's 763's, we can fly a transatlantic flight once, and almost make 50 million dollars. The 100 million dollars also means you won't see a hub at every airport in the world, and in some cases, it wont be worth the money. Fuel at Calgary is 1.12, compared to say, Houston at 1.67. I dont really need a hub at Calgary (although if this feature is added, i will, because, well, It's my Hub

)

Anyways, at first I thought 500 million was a good price, but I lowered it after some thought. Then I figured we might as well discuss it! Goash I love Forums

JJacobs · Post by **JJacobs** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:08 am

what about smaller vas like CAPv we operate up to GA8 which can carry 6 pax 100 mil is VERY unreasonable how about you charge based on \the vas largest aircraft

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:13 am

JJacobs wrote:what about smaller vas like CAPv we operate up to GA8 which can carry 6 pax 100 mil is VERY unreasonable how about you charge based on \the vas largest aircraft

Yes, but this is a Hub we're talking about. Maybe we could do hub sizes, and the more you pay, the better the deals you get? 50 million gets you 5% off the gas, 100 mil, 7.5%, 200 mill 10%.

I brought up the idea of Fuel contracts, pay 10 million, get 30 cents off fuel prices for a month, that might work to if all your after is less money for the avgas.

For the hubs, maybe 5% passenger interest increase (IE more people want to fly on your airline from that airport) to differentiate it from the Fuel Contract.

ricchio · Post by **ricchio** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:15 am

Is this talking about the realism of airlines being at airports outside of their country? I'm not one for airlines have a hubs in other countries because it's not that realistic.

Ciao,
Aaron

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:12 am

ricchio wrote:Is this talking about the realism of airlines being at airports outside of their country? I'm not one for airlines have a hubs in other countries because it's not that realistic.

Ciao,
Aaron

I'll second that, I don't particularily like the idea of a US based company having a hub in Canada, or vice versa. It's a very good idea, hubs allowed only in the country where most of your aircraft are registered in (since I don't think there's a Company Registration)

BigQ · Post by **BigQ** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:30 pm

Ok, you've proven your point. I like the idea of hub sizes and the hubs being restricted to your original country of operation.

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:31 pm

This may be right but this way a real life feature is lost. Real life airlines can found "child-airlines" as new companies bound to the mother company. In FlyNet this cannot be done but could be simulated with multiple hubs. If it was possible to create such child-airlines I would support your position.

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:51 pm

Ionathan wrote:This may be right but this way a real life feature is lost. Real life airlines can found "child-airlines" as new companies bound to the mother company. In FlyNet this cannot be done but could be simulated with multiple hubs. If it was possible to create such child-airlines I would support your position.

Are you talking about having Hubs in many other countries? I'm not sure how it works in Europe, but Canadian Airlines only have Hubs in Canada (EU might be different) The idea of child airlines is a good one, but wouldn't they just be flying to your Hubs/larger cities anyways? i'm thinking of Air Canada's Jazz and Tango (which I both despise), United Express, etc. If you could explain more about how the system could be improved, that would be great (to be honest, I don't really how the Child airline thing would affect making a Hub)

I still think the monetary upkeep for a HUB should be there, but now I'm wondering, maybe lower the price, but make it like a leasing thing. Have a set price per day, and you enter the number of days you want to operate from that Airport as a Hub. That allows smaller airlines the benefit, and bigger airlines to just drop a lot of cash and use it as a hub for months before having to worry to pay again.

BigQ · Post by **BigQ** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:38 pm

Would multiple airlines be allowed to use the same hub? Then I suggest that if that is the case, that maybe we should reflect this by a form of airport expansion, whether it is by lowering fuel costs to a higher amount of passengers at that airport... just to reflect economic growth... of course, it would take a long time...

How about landing fees as well? Airports that buy hubs get cheaper landing fees. Definately a point to think about...

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:42 pm

Do we even have Landing Fees right now? If not, it's a possibility, but maybe for only 737 and above...

As for the Hubs and multiple airlines, I figured in my original, the large output of money was to finance the airport expansion, and the Hub benefits would only go to that airline. Other airlines would have to make the airport Their Hub by paying 100 million, before they received the discounts.

ricchio · Post by **ricchio** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:23 am

No no no... there isn't one airline that I know that operates outside of it's country. Sorry, maybe one (the Virgin groups). Typically, even if one 'mother' airline owns smaller ones to provide more service, it is within the same country, such as United Express. Otherwise airline much optain the rights to work in other nations.

Ciao,
Aaron

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:30 am

But in any case they can have intermidiate stops. If a few flights make a stop at a specific airport before they continue to different secondary destinations, isn't ti a kind of hub?

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:34 am

I would call that a refuel stop, not a hub, no domestic flights from the airline stop there, only extreme long Haul. ithink what your airline (ionathan) does would be considered illegal in the real world, having a hub at EGLL when your airline is registered in Greece.

You may only operate domestic flights in your own country, and unlesss its a fuel stopover, im pretty sure most International flights operate the way Ricchio mentioned.

And Ricchio, I think Emirates operates under "the sixth freedom" and flies international between non Emirates countries. Could be worng though, just know that a lot of airlines hate Emirates (not pax, but other airlines), cause apparently they dont pay for their fuel...