The famous "Fuel-Topic"

Post by **DaKurt** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:59 am

Ok, I want to clarify things here. We have got some problems with some pilots who have unlimited fuel. I think this ruins the whole economic system, because you don't have any expenses. I'm thinking about canceling the unlimited fuel option first of all.

Then I'm currently trying to add some more detailed fueling modes like "check/compare fuel before and after flight", "choose which tanks you want to fuel"...

IslandBum · Post by **IslandBum** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:06 pm

Kurt

Thanks for the looking at possible fueling schedules - as the proud owner of 8 shiny Viscounts it would be a wonderful thing - and you have my voted for cancelling the unlimited fueling equation - it does nothing but artificially inflate the
economy

Leif

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:02 pm

People make mistakes fuelling there planes, happens quite a bit.

Some people have never been weaned off the unlimited fuel habit either. If we just have their planes run out over the midatlantic, well, they're going to be shocked and dismayed, and the learning curve for FLYnet gets higher.

Now this does not mean I condone cheating, in any way shape or form, but there is a better way to go about this I think.
Just slap a 15% pilots rating penalty onto them for running out of fuel.

Since at the moment, if a fueling error is made (and currently we can't go back to change it before takeoff) and there is still widespread difficulties involved with people who fly B747s with fuel flow resembling Beech1900s, I think just cutting off unlimited fuel would be an unwise approach at this time.

Post by **joefremont** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:10 pm

Hi DaKurt, Not quite sure about your poll, does a yes vote indicate a vote in favor of allowing unlimited fuel or restricting unlimited fuel?

I agree that this is an area that needs improvement.

In the refueling area an option that would allow the pilot to decide how much fuel goes into each tank would be useful, an easy way to do this might be to allow the pilot to configure the fuel in FS and then have the client read the amount of fuel on board and use that.

In the unlimited fuel this is something that does need restricting. I would think that if the client detects that the aircraft has run out of fuel but the engines are still running it should have the same penalties as landing at the wrong airport (-15 rep, no revenue).

Also is there a way to find out what the fuel flow scalar is set at? We could set an acceptable range for each aircraft type.

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:28 pm

I expand upon my ideas further in this thread: http://flynet.en-studios.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1790

avalonceo · Post by **avalonceo** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:31 pm

I don't think unlimited fuel should be allowed, not unless the aircraft is capable of a mid air refueling ( i don't know of any in FLYNET that are capable) if that option is taken away however, fuel stops should be allowed with no penalty. that way there is no "weening" that need to take place. Pilots gotta keep an eye on the juice like scuba divers keep an eye on their air. And as far as the tanks options go, awesome. If flynet could distribute pax and cargo weight to that would be awesome. Keep it up the system is starting to mature quite nicely.

PedroD · Post by **PedroD** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:02 am

Hi
At this moment, yes, I think that we can have unlimited fuel. Because we can't refuel the plane without a penalty. After the refuel thing start to be active and work well, I think that we can have limited fuel again, and refuel without a penalty. At this moment the long rangers pilots have problem with the fuel/refuel and keep some planes at the same time 0%fat free in the air

Just my €0,1cent.

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:58 am

Why not work within the fuel constraints and range of the aircraft available?
Isn't that how it is in RL?
If you need to go farther, then set up a base and move your stuff from there.
I'm new to this arena, am I missing something ?

Post by **Quantum** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:33 am

Hi,

At FlyNET there are many aircraft that are range restricted with a full load. What do we do? We build in a fuel stop with the Flightplans. Many airlines in real life cannot make a flight without stopping for fuel. What do they do? They build in a fuel stop. Just build your Flightplans with the fuel stops there already. FlyNET will ALWAYS try and load maximum payload onto your aircraft so always plan for the fuel stop. The issue about the unlimited fuel is to stop the kiddies flying round the world with nil fuel costs. Planning a fuel stop makes things more like real life anyway so I don't see the problem.

Rgds

John

IslandBum · Post by **IslandBum** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:52 am

John

Again Im in full agreement with you - Part of what FLynet is about is PLANNING - anyone can take any aircraft with unlimited fuel and fly it in the virtual world - I could fly 748s back and forth between Hawaii and the mainland all day.
But whats the point? Plan your routes and equipment - plan your fuel loads - One problem I have routinely is I DO
Plan for the real word - That means I have fuel for taxiout, alternate, holding fuel and reserve - why? Because in the
RL world these are REQUIRED BY LAW. If I landed and acft with LESS than 5000# of fuel (MD80s in my case) the pilots
and my license would be on the line immeaditatly. So - Let Konny and DaKurt review the fueling criteria and make it a
little more realistic - set out a MLF (min landing Fuel) for the major types used in Flynet and let CEOs or Managers or
pilots do their jobs and do some REAL flight planning .

Ill take my soapbox now folks

Leif

Andrew J Watson · Post by **Andrew J Watson** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:29 pm

I agree with the last two comments. Putting in fuel stops or stopover would be good!

Post by **Quantum** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:10 pm

Andrew J Watson wrote:I agree with the last two comments. Putting in fuel stops or stopover would be good!

Hi Andrew,

You can do this now. If you want to fly a route say UK - Australia, just break the flight down into whatever sector lengths/route you want and file all the individual plans. You can use the same flight number all the way from origin to destination.

Rgds

John

ivanT3 · Post by **ivanT3** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:29 pm

PedroD wrote:Hi
At this moment, yes, I think that we can have unlimited fuel. Because we can't refuel the plane without a penalty. After the refuel thing start to be active and work well, I think that we can have limited fuel again, and refuel without a penalty. At this moment the long rangers pilots have problem with the fuel/refuel and keep some planes at the same time 0%fat free in the air
Just my €0,1cent.

I'm not at all clear on what Fuel penalty is presented. I thought you could stop for fuel and pay only for the fuel above and beyond what already resides in the tanks.?? Is this not right?

What is a "fuel penalty" and how does it appear in Flynet? What are the implications?..

Thanks.........

Ivan......................

PedroD · Post by **PedroD** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:14 pm

Hi Ivan

If you want landing on any airport for refuel, then, the system read as you landed on wrong airport, and not the destination airport that you want. And you have a penalty for that.
Imagine, you come from A to C, but you dont have fuel enough to the point C, because your plane can't carry on, you must stop on point B for refuel, then you have at this moment a penalty for that, because you landed on wrong airport and not the correct/destination one. This is what I call "penalty", I am wrong or I missed something?

It is clear, that I agree with limited fuel, but at this moment, if the system dont let us refuel for that reason. The limited fuel dont have sense at all. When the system it punishs us, the same system must let us to reach a solution.

Rgds

CAPFlyer · Post by **CAPFlyer** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:30 pm

Pedro, you continue to disregard the basic planning tool that is available to *ALL airlines - create multi-legged flights. Fuel stops are always at the same airport in the real world. It's not a "fly until you have to stop" deal. You plan the route with the fuel stop and every flight on that route stops there for fuel. Well, in FlyNET we don't fuel stops specifically implimented *YET*; it's on the To-Do list, but it's not in now. In the meantime, you can still do fuel stops, just break your flight into multiple segments. Say you want to fly JFK to London but have to stop in Keflavik for fuel because of the airplane you're using. Create 2 flights in the system - one JFK to Keflavik and one Keflavik to London. Now, give both flights the same flight number and now you've introduced a "fuel stop". When the system is updated, you'll be able to create a "fuel stop flight", but the only change will be you won't make any additional revenue by landing at Keflavik. Now, you make revenue for 2 separate flights as if you stop in Keflavik and everyone gets off and then new passegers board for London. Having the same flight number signifies to others, however, that the flight is a continuation of the original so they understand your route system better.

FSAirlines

The famous "Fuel-Topic"

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The famous "Fuel-Topic"