Pilot Payroll

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:51 pm

CAPFlyer wrote:Justin,

It's one place where we should deviate from reality in the interest of simplicity and appealing to the largest number of pilots and VA's possible.

Heh, of all the things I figured that we would disagree on, this wasnt one of them... Who knew?

I just feel that it gives CEOS something to do, and think about, and something pilots can brag about. I mean, you can say "I make 10% on my flights), or you can say "Yeah, my VA lets me pull 560k a year, as Hub Manager" Personnally I like the second one better.

I also think it adds a control to FLYnet, as you can easily tell whos flying in your airline, and whos not. Pilots get the reward of earning a paycheck, and are motivated to continue earning said paycheck.

As for penalizing piltos who have RW commitments, it's entirely up to your own airline when to enforce a cutoff date for pay. Heck, having this system would mean that pilots who didnt fly often could at least still earn personal income.

Post by **Quantum** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:20 pm

cmdrnmartin wrote:
I just feel that it gives CEOS something to do, and think about

I've got enough to do and think about already

cmdrnmartin wrote: I also think it adds a control to FLYnet, as you can easily tell whos flying in your airline, and whos not.

We've got more than enough stats of our own already regarding our pilots and fleet. I know exactly what all my pilots activities are.

cmdrnmartin wrote:something pilots can brag about. I mean, you can say "I make 10% on my flights), or you can say "Yeah, my VA lets me pull 560k a year, as Hub Manager" Personnally I like the second one better.

Have any of your pilots complained about pay? My pilots are so concerned about pay they didn't even know when I'd increased it.

cmdrnmartin wrote: Heck, having this system would mean that pilots who didnt fly often could at least still earn personal income.

Hmm....... Pilots earn personal income as much as they like - each time they fly.

Keep it simple

Rgds

John

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:26 pm

Ahh, but to return to you sir, this system is very simple...

It gives more flexibility to the CEOs who want it, while still following very simple guidelines.

You choose how often they should fly to get a paycheck.
You set how much you pay them.
The system then maintains itslef after that, auitomatically doling out daily paychecks to your members, and cutting them off, and reindstating them. All automated, all very simple.

Post by **Quantum** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:39 pm

It may sound simple but the coding for the db and the execution of the daily calcs is just throwing another spanner in the works. Pilots will be checking their 'pay packets' daily and complaining if things aren't quite right which in turn will put more work on someone to try and sort things out. As I said earlier, it's just my tuppence worth but I'd much prefer energy to be expended in other areas that are broke and do need fixing.

Rgds

John

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:00 pm

If I understand you correctly, your not against the change because its a bad idea, but your more against it because of the work that will be involved, correct?

Not that there's anything wrong with that, I realize that my ideas tend to create work for Konny (eg: The sliding Multiplier, Codesharing).
But, disregarding the work effort required to implement it, would you like the system itself? I figured it would allow CEOs who want to be a bit more hands on to feel more like the CEO and less like a website administrator. If your VA has ranks and pilot levels, well then you could slot right into flynet with no problem, since you could set up your payroll system, and then it would do all the work for you.

Anyways, just curious as to whether you didnt like the proposal itself, or just the bugs and work it will create (as do all new ideas)

Post by **Quantum** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:47 pm

Hi Justin

I'm quite happy with the way things are at the moment regarding pay. The changes you propose whilst some may wish to embrace them are not my cup of tea. I do not wish to create any heirarchy within CBFS VA and would not if the system were changed as you proposed. I don't think a pilot should be paid if he does not fly and I think he should be paid 'the going rate' if he does. We have a good team at CBFS VA and we have some volunteer managers who help me keep things oiled and running well. No-one has any preferential treatment, pay or otherwise whether they are a manager or not. As regards ranks and pilot levels, they are the ones assigned by FlyNET and are really just a measure of how much a pilot has been active. I mentioned the possible pitfalls to compare with the current, simple solution which is 'maintenance free'.

Rgds

John

p.s. The F100's have been reduced to v$22m each

IslandBum · Post by **IslandBum** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:07 pm

Just to Agree with what John says - My guys mostly ask "What am I supposed to spend imaginary money on?" answer
Imaginary beer and women - most of us here fly because we ENJOY it - and the fact the Flynet allows a purpose to
flying for VA is fine - personally I think that Flynet is more designed for the "CEOs" than the pilots - If you continue to
add restrcition and regulations you are likely to find yourself with out any pilots to fly for you - the average guy flying here
cant be bothered with all the machinations - my guys want a challenge which is more about flying SKILLS than management
skills - they fly when and if they wish - with only one basic restriction , I as a CEO listen to all their ideas and input and we make changes and additions as we go - As far as "where we are in the stats" - I find that all the $vs do is allow me to add aircraft to our fleet - and that on any given day - by asking if anyone is up for it - we can put ALL of our pilots in the air and totally change the stats - This ISNT what I downloaded Flynet and Started VHAVA for - It was done to give a group of people an enviorment and purpose in which to fly - to that end we have been very successful - personally I think the more restrictive you make the "rules" the less people will want to fly in the Flynet envoirment which will totally defeat Konnys original purpose

Thank you

Leif

Post by **joefremont** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:36 pm

I am with John and Lief on this one. I don't think most FlyNET pilots are very concerned about there pay. The only thing flynet really needs is a way for the CEO to transfer funds a pilot to reimburse them if they had to cancel a flight or buy ticket. You could use that for bonuses but there would have to be some kind of controls on that. You would not a CEO to give there pilots big bonuses so they could buy there own private B744's using airline funds. This would also have the effect of paying pilots with post-multiplier funds rather than pre-multiplier funds and disrupting the economics.

HS1 · Post by **HS1** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:43 pm

I also think that the number of non-executive pilots on FlyNET is not sufficiently hight to warrant this system. Nevertheless, I like the sound of it, and it would be a solution worth reviewing in the future.

BigQ · Post by **BigQ** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:12 pm

As I said earlier, I like this system. Why?
The objective of Flynet is to make flying and its experience as real and fun as possible. If we have varying degrees of pay (aka not 10% of flight to everyone), pilots will strive to get better to get better pay. I acknowledge that there's nothing other than personal planes and tickets that we can spend our money on right now, but combining this idea with the "fly so many hours with flynet before you can create your own VA" would work very well...I think that when we will have ideas of activities/"items" to buy with a pilot's money this system will be very successful.

You guys make it sound like if you're fighting on whether this feature should be implemented immediately or not... Who said that? BETA testing, remember? putting ideas in and out... in the end, the client will be an amazing piece of add-on software when everything comes together.

Qminator

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:20 pm

I'm still failing to see what the contention is here... I appreciate the input, but I don't get how making a pay system that is entirely customizable by every CEO, is restrictive. If anything, it allows for increased control for those who want it, and theres really no change for anyone else who doesnt want to play around with it, they can just have all their pilots payed the same.

As for the argument that pilots arnt concerned about pay... Well thats only because we dont have a stock market up yet, or houses, etc etc. Fun little things to add to your 'virtual profile' should you want to. (And in keeping with the intent of flynet to allow everyone to fly, it would be entirely optional.)

There are many people who want flynet to do many things. Right now the pay system is limited, as are managerial tools. With this, wed be taking a step to add in the customizability for those who want it, and everyone else could just use a default setting, should they not want to delve into it.

Anyways, I still find it amusing that for all the cries of 'realism' that we get, this seems to be harder for people to accept than other proposals I've made

FsNovice · Post by **FsNovice** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:23 pm

yeah, cmdrmartin, i'm also strugling to undertand where this contention is from. Like everything, including the hangar,there is a way to bypass all the extras, unrealted to flying. I'm defintely one who would love the new pay system.

migman29 · Post by **migman29** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:35 pm

I find it is fun with VHA.
I can fly anything in the fleet,Ke-Sahn approaches,"bus stop"runs or long haul in some of the best Classics.
I can fly as much or as little as I want,when I want,how I want and in what I want(as long as we've got one in the fleet).
If I don't want to fly for the airline I can take out one of my large collection of warbirds and go "cloud dancing"around the Hawaiian Islands,the scenery is that good.

In other words I can do as I wish and what's more so can all the other jockeys at VHA.
We all have our favorite types and operations,no one says "Here,who's pinched my aeroplane and left me stranded"

But above all we have a good laugh and fly just for the fun of it.

Don't put anymore rules and regulations on,it'll just get spoiled for everyone and I don't just mean the VHA pilots,I mean all the pilots on all the VA's.

Miggers

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:03 pm

This is not a rule! Nor is it a regulation!

Am I saying you can't fly the routes you want? No...

Am I saying that theres any form of restriction on flying? No... In fact I want to give more incentive for flying.

I find it great that you fly for the fun of it, and this change would not affect that at all... All it does is give tools to those who would like to use them.

IslandBum · Post by **IslandBum** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:23 pm

Im not sure what your getting so wound up about -the way you laid it out at the start of thread was that it would be implemented as part of the "rules" for Flynet - frankly its beyond me why - Unfortunatly what were once vices are now habits
which means that the whole implication behind it is has very little to do with "paying" anyone and alot to do about control - And seriously, what do Stocks and houses have to do with a virtual airline is beyond me - hence the comment about virtual women and beer.....I will write this again slowly so you understand - 90% of the people who fly FS DONT WANT that kind of regulation and again Flynet is MORE about business management than flying - my group uses it to give a purpose to to flying FS (which in its present state it does admirably) - when I want to go play Airline management - Ill go to work thank you - Just please DO NOT institute anything that makes it manadatory for pilots to fly on flynet because you the day you do - well you will see a large exodus.

Cheers

Leif