Cargo System/Packages

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Cat
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by Cat » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:39 pm

Well that's not good. You may have to submit a support ticket detailing the issue so Joe can see the flag and get to it top priority.

Have you tried transferring those packages to another aircraft at that same airport?

Have you tried the Release Packages tab in the Actions bar where you select the aircraft to load?

Make sure the aircraft in question is NOT BOOKED for any flight.

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by joefremont » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:03 am

AdySmith wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:31 am
I still can't release these packages.

I am on the airline - packages page, I have selected All VA Packages.

The tick boxes to release are there and I select them, then I click Submit.

NOTHING HAPPENS! They are all still there several more days later!
Defiantly a bug there, I removed the packages so they won't haunt you in the future, and will fix it asap.
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by joefremont » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:40 pm

joefremont wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:03 am
AdySmith wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:31 am
I still can't release these packages.

I am on the airline - packages page, I have selected All VA Packages.

The tick boxes to release are there and I select them, then I click Submit.

NOTHING HAPPENS! They are all still there several more days later!
Defiantly a bug there, I removed the packages so they won't haunt you in the future, and will fix it asap.
Should be fixed now.
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by Cat » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:04 am

Hey here is a "thinking out of the box" idea ...... regarding the paid memberships, what if you established a higher tier, Platinum Plus .... for an extra little fee, your airline would get additional package cargo loads based on analytics of where the planes fly along with a 50% discount on Airport Center purchases. NOT rent, just purchases. Or maybe rent too what the hey? Just a crazy thought .... I know if I owned a GA only airline where packages are few and far between, I'd buy it.

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by joefremont » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:56 am

Cat wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:04 am
Hey here is a "thinking out of the box" idea ...... regarding the paid memberships, what if you established a higher tier, Platinum Plus .... for an extra little fee, your airline would get additional package cargo loads based on analytics of where the planes fly along with a 50% discount on Airport Center purchases. NOT rent, just purchases. Or maybe rent too what the hey? Just a crazy thought .... I know if I owned a GA only airline where packages are few and far between, I'd buy it.
There is a idea I had not thought of before, are there those who have GA airlines that can't find enough packages?
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by Cat » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:04 pm

Yeah pretty slim pickings for us out of Boise (KBOI). We moved some up to McCall (KMYL) where the "fishing" is a little better. Boise is a mixed use airport with both commercial and GA, it has one of the country's Pilatus PC12 dealers on property as well as a FedEx facility. Decent freight for the bigger planes to places like Las Vegas, Oakland, Dallas, etc., but not much for places a 208 or Quest Kodiak would service. I found one package for a dinky USFS airport (24K) down in Las Vegas and got it delivered via 737 to Boise, PC12 to MYL, then switched to a Cessna 185 to drop into that tiny 1500 ft grass strip in the bottom of a canyon. That was fun! I could have ground delivered it from MYL but what fun is that? Just one little package. I actually made more coming back out with one more biz passenger to MYL and no package cargo. So the package system is really not an "end all to beat all" for making the most money. You have to pick and choose your battles wisely. But it DOES give us purpose instead of flipping coins or pulling "dispatch cards" to see where to fly next.

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by Cat » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:19 pm

Oh FYI, I will do #3 in my video series on the Package System in the next day or two: Transferring Packages between planes and using Aircraft Centers.

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by Cat » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:47 pm

#3 in my Package System video series, this one shows how to transfer plane to plane and plane to Airport Center and back. It also shows how REALLY EASY it is to load a plane that does not have a route to fly those packages to their destination.

https://youtu.be/XXgFswOB8b4

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by joefremont » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:21 am

Cat wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:47 pm
#3 in my Package System video series, this one shows how to transfer plane to plane and plane to Airport Center and back. It also shows how REALLY EASY it is to load a plane that does not have a route to fly those packages to their destination.

https://youtu.be/XXgFswOB8b4
Another great video Sam! I liked the inclusion of the video's :-)
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by Cat » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:12 pm

As fast as guys are pulling cargo with jumbo jets, you may have to regenerate the package system more frequently. Just an observation.

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by MMattyK » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:21 pm

Surely the package system regeneration should be in line with the passenger regeneration system... in the old days (I don't know it its still the same) but you could have an aircraft on the ramp ready to go at an airport, and when you were ready to book a flight, all the passengers had gone, picked up by other carriers!

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by joefremont » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:50 pm

I can certainly crank up the number of packages generated, right now we generate package twice a day, and we add about 100000 package into the system each time, packages not moved are removed after two weeks. The system gives weight to routes and airports that have been used recently (90 days) when placing packages.

We can certainly add another run each day, maybe increase the number of the 40kg packages so the GA pilots have more to pickup. Maybe we should restrict the big jumbo's from picking up those smaller packages.

With passengers we used to just calculate the numbers once a day, then we figured out, N passengers will arrive each day, and if your flying 3 hours after the last flight, we can calculate how many would show up during that time, but that's just a generic number, with packages we are creating each packages and it takes about 5 or 10 minutes for the job to run so we can't be running it all the time.
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by Cat » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:42 pm

Well, it would make sense for a larger aircraft to take smaller packages if they are going to a hub to be delivered elsewhere by GA planes. So just eliminating them from the larger planes would cause it's own issues. Nobody is going to fly an 88 lb package in a 208 from LAS to BOS. BUT if that package was picked up by a GA plane at a smaller airport to go to the big city airport via hub connection, then the big bird will need to be able to carry it.

To find the right mix of feeder packages to hub bins will be an ongoing process as the system, pilots and virtual airlines evolve. There is no "right answer" in this ground breaking approach, we will just have to adapt and make adjustments to try to fill in the gaps as they appear.

The big issue I can see is everyone flying the same major airport routes as that's where all the packages are. We start flying wide body jumbo's on shorter routes, they will suck the package system dry in no time. It's one of the reasons Fly Vegas has a 500nm minimum flight distance for our 2 aisle wide body aircraft. Large aircraft were never designed to fly 3-4 legs a day like 737's and A321's. They are designed to fly for hours and hours and hours.

But in FSAirlines we are doing this for fun and watching a plane on AP for hours and hours and hours is not fun. So we have to make some adjustments to suit our needs vs the real world. I don't think 4409's and larger should be on any route less than 500nm. The 737's/A321's cannot carry them.

Having said that, it's impossible to eliminate short flights in jumbo jets using the package system if we are going to haul multiple stops. For example we fly ORD LAS using 767/747/777 aircraft with packages on board to connect to PHX or LAX and if any of those bins are over 441 in size, then the jumbo has to make a very short flight to deliver them, something that would never happen in the real world. We compensate for that fact by requiring any jumbo that has flown a short flight (less than 500nm) to fly a minimum 1000 nm flight on the next trip.

In the real world logistics business, they would break that freight down at the hub into cargo bins the smaller jets can load. That is really starting to push the envelope of what is possible with FSAirlines, as we are now comparing single "packages" (FSAirlines) to "cargo bins" containing multiple smaller packages (real world). Another example is Alaska Freight Operations in the real world. Hubs are delivered 1500 lb wrapped cargo pallets by larger aircraft and those pallets are broken down and delivered in smaller portions by the bush planes.

So before anyone goes off on how the system is not realistic, please understand it is FAR SUPERIOR to what we had before and will take some tweaking as we all learn and grow into using this new system. Airline Operators need to understand the package system is "bonus freight" and not the end all to beat all, you can still make money with generic cargo, you don't have to take every package for the entire region on one flight.

I personally would reduce the ground delivery system to no more than 50 nm as anything over that I think you make more with generic freight anyway. As the system stands now a jumbo can deliver to two big city airports in one flight using the ground delivery system. Perhaps one way to conserve cargo in FSAirlines is to have a minimum flight distance per package size and eliminate the ground delivery system altogether. This would then require operators to fly to/from Chicago Midway or O'Hare (for example) but not between them. As it stands now, one plane can deliver to both in one flight to either airport using the ground delivery system thus taking business away from other flights. The same holds true for Oakland/San Francisco, New York Kennedy/LaGuardia, airports around London, etc.

Just some thoughts, I am not trying to "stir the pot" just to get the system suited for only our operation.... it is a very cool system and working together with all of our idea's, we can make it work for just about everyone.

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by joefremont » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:12 pm

Good points Sam.

Restricting delivery to 50 nm is probably not a bad idea. Living as I do in the SF bay area, we have three major airports close by, KSFO is the biggest for passengers but Oakland has a bigger cargo operation and things are regularly trucked from there all over the bay area. But Sacramento is less than 100 miles away and you probably would not truck to KSAC from KOAK.

As I was building the cargo system I envisioned that the major routes would probably get depleted pretty quickly and that pilots would have to go further afield to get there packages, thinking that may not be a bad thing. I agree with our minimum distance ideas and did incorporate that into the initial design, 40kg have a distance range of 100-400nm, 200kg are 250-4000 and 2000kg are 500 nm+.

Maybe because I have done this for some time I was designing the cargo system with the idea that any hole I make that can be exploited will be, so you can't transfer packages between airlines to shift the responsibility of them and airlines are getting hit with large fees for 'packages not delivered' for hoarding to many of them. That last thing needs some thought to address, I have already deleted a fair number of airline crushing transactions so at least there needs to be better visibility as to what is coming.

But I take it as a sign of success that so far 318,278 packages have been delivered.
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by CaptainPrecious » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:17 pm

I‘d just like to state that the package system is - though maybe not perfect - AWESOME! It is the major reason why I prefer FS Airlines over any other VA, it‘s just so well done!

Yes I do see the small issues coming with it. As for Airlines going bankrupt - let them! I think it‘s made pretty clear what you sign up for when accepting a package. Of course if it happens due to bad luck or other circumstances, you should help them out like you‘ve done so far. But that ought to be be the exception.

Increasing the number of packages in the system isn‘t even my favourite solution. Sure, it‘ll solve some problems. But can I make a suggestion? Let the community solve those problems themselves!

I mean how far away are we from one of those tycoon games? Can‘t be very much, because the transporting operations are pretty much complete and we‘re already able to take loans, offer credits and stuff... add a stock market and we‘re a fully functioning ecosystem (joking!).

But would it be too difficult to, let‘s say give certain locations certain goods and packages of certain kinds? And make regions rely on certain goods in order to produce their own?

That way you could have something like „coal-mine regions“, that just produce infinetly, but in order to make other regions produce goods SOMEbody gotta deliver eg coal to them. The more supply they get, the more they produce and so on...

I can almost imagine creating something like this in an excel sheet, so surely for a genius like you that‘ll be no problem? ;-P

Just my 2 cents
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