Cargo System/Packages

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VegasTim
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by VegasTim » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:53 pm

Seems like the package cargo system is drying up and not re-generating or is it just that busy now? It's going to be difficult to get a wide body freighter fully loaded to anywhere.

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by joefremont » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:14 pm

Sorry about that, I turned it off to test something unrelated to it and forgot to turn it back on, I will run it a few times to stock things up again.
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by joefremont » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:14 pm

CaptainPrecious wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:17 pm
...
But would it be too difficult to, let‘s say give certain locations certain goods and packages of certain kinds? And make regions rely on certain goods in order to produce their own?

That way you could have something like „coal-mine regions“, that just produce infinetly, but in order to make other regions produce goods SOMEbody gotta deliver eg coal to them. The more supply they get, the more they produce and so on...

...

Just my 2 cents
CaptainPrecious
I remember way way back, one of the first PC computer games I ever played was one called 'Taipan' where you sailed a ship between ports, bought cargo that was four different types of commodities and different ports had different rates (and occasionally your ship was intercepted by pirates you had to fight off). We could go there but then that's a bit of a different game, buying and selling of commodities rather than just transporting goods someone else wants to ship.
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by VegasTim » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:10 pm

I am seeing something new now in the Cargo System, perhaps this is a glitch? One can see ALL AIRCRAFT in the airline regardless of the location one chooses at the top in Airline Packages. It almost seems possible to load packages onto aircraft that are not at that airport. Perhaps this needs investigating as it can be quite confusing to see all those planes when looking for one specific aircraft that is the only one at that particular airport.

All of our Airport Centers and our Warehouse show up when I'm in Las Vegas too, including the Boise Airport Center and the Phoenix Warehouse.

I just tried to load a package onto a King Air 350 in Boise from the Phoenix Warehouse and the system tried but then kicked it out and the page flipped to Boise at the top instead of Las Vegas where I was. But every aircraft we own still shows up regardless of the location at the top.

FYI - My signature is "on" but it doesn't show here don't know why

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by joefremont » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:51 am

VegasTim wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:10 pm
I am seeing something new now in the Cargo System, perhaps this is a glitch? One can see ALL AIRCRAFT in the airline regardless of the location one chooses at the top in Airline Packages. It almost seems possible to load packages onto aircraft that are not at that airport. Perhaps this needs investigating as it can be quite confusing to see all those planes when looking for one specific aircraft that is the only one at that particular airport.

All of our Airport Centers and our Warehouse show up when I'm in Las Vegas too, including the Boise Airport Center and the Phoenix Warehouse.

I just tried to load a package onto a King Air 350 in Boise from the Phoenix Warehouse and the system tried but then kicked it out and the page flipped to Boise at the top instead of Las Vegas where I was. But every aircraft we own still shows up regardless of the location at the top.

FYI - My signature is "on" but it doesn't show here don't know why
Thanks for pointing that out, try to fix one thing and you break another. Should be better now.
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by CaptainPrecious » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:13 am

Btw yesterday, I don't know exactly why, I landed in Heathrow and wanted to take packages form there onto my plane, and accidentally loaded a plane in Munich!

I mean, Packages from EGLL onto a plane located in Munich!?!?

So I flew from EDDM to EGLL, loaded the packages from one Airplane onto the other one and... problem solved. But this shouldn't be happening, right?

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by joefremont » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:06 am

CaptainPrecious wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:13 am
Btw yesterday, I don't know exactly why, I landed in Heathrow and wanted to take packages form there onto my plane, and accidentally loaded a plane in Munich!

I mean, Packages from EGLL onto a plane located in Munich!?!?

So I flew from EDDM to EGLL, loaded the packages from one Airplane onto the other one and... problem solved. But this shouldn't be happening, right?
That was a bug that was pointed out to me and should be fixed now, if you can get the ID numbers of both aircraft I can transfer them back.
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by Cat » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:52 pm

Seems the folks have found a way to game the system and suck entire area's dry of package cargo available: flying jumbo jets short distances (less than 500nm) and taking everything within range and ground delivering them.

So unless the package supply is multiplied by a significant factor or some rules put into place about short hopping jumbo jet freighters, this problem will only persist.

I've run the numbers and if cargo is available, a jumbo jet can make far more money doing 200nm turns back and forth than flying a long route - in regards to income earned per flight hour.

Jumbo jets were never designed for a high rate of landing cycles, they are made to get up and fly for hours.

Just some observations as the system evolves.

One solution to slow this down is to remove the ground delivery option completely leaving the smaller planes with at least some leftover pickings at other locations in the area.

Another solution is to increase the status hit on jumbo jet aircraft "per landing cycle" so they will require maintenance far earlier when flying many short trips verses longer ones.

We have an in-house 500/1000nm rule. Anytime a jumbo jet flies a route less than 500nm it must then fly the next flight a minimum of 1000nm.

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by jato0072 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:37 pm

May I also suggest the system could generate random package clusters.

Instead of googles of 88 lbs packages, 441 lbs packages and 4,409 lbs packages, have the FSA package generating system create (for example):

10 * 4409 lbs packages (44090 lbs)

5 * 441 lbs packages (2205 lbs)

7 * 88 lbs packages (616 lbs)

Where the number of packages in a singe 'job' is a random number say between 1 and 10.

This might help with cutting down the massive package inventories at the large airports.

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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by joefremont » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:55 am

Cat wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:52 pm
Seems the folks have found a way to game the system and suck entire area's dry of package cargo available: flying jumbo jets short distances (less than 500nm) and taking everything within range and ground delivering them.

So unless the package supply is multiplied by a significant factor or some rules put into place about short hopping jumbo jet freighters, this problem will only persist.

I've run the numbers and if cargo is available, a jumbo jet can make far more money doing 200nm turns back and forth than flying a long route - in regards to income earned per flight hour.

Jumbo jets were never designed for a high rate of landing cycles, they are made to get up and fly for hours.

Just some observations as the system evolves.

One solution to slow this down is to remove the ground delivery option completely leaving the smaller planes with at least some leftover pickings at other locations in the area.

Another solution is to increase the status hit on jumbo jet aircraft "per landing cycle" so they will require maintenance far earlier when flying many short trips verses longer ones.

We have an in-house 500/1000nm rule. Anytime a jumbo jet flies a route less than 500nm it must then fly the next flight a minimum of 1000nm.
Hi Sam, You suggested not that long ago we reduce the delivery radius to 30-50nm instead of 100nm, I wonder how much that would help. As for wide body aircraft on short routes, I know there have been some specifically intended for that route, the 747-400D comes to mind. I also remember reading about PSA's experience with the early L-1011's, they bought a few planning on using it on there short SFO to LAX route, of course they were not a success, not because of maintenance issues but because of there size they took too long to load and unload. Alas in our FSA world we have never taken into account the turn around time for the aircraft. We could increase the damage on large aircraft on a per flight basis but it probably would not be enough to deter the short term gain pilots are getting.

Maybe for aircraft that can take the 2000 kg packages they can't take on the small 40 kg package unless another aircraft has moved it from its starting point. I wonder how much that would help.
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Re: Cargo System/Packages

Post by Cat » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:45 am

I don't want to cut out the guys with big birds doing what they do (this is after all supposed to be for fun), but we do need some way to leave some pickings for those who don't fly big birds. The easiest solution in my eye would be to remove the ground delivery as a trial test. Now it will take two flights into OAK SFO so competing airlines have a chance to grab some of the gold instead of one big bird sweeping it all away in one flight.

The only other solution that is "simple" without changing a lot (at least in my mind) would be to just double the volume. That may not be so simple either, as I - like everyone else - have no idea what it takes to generate packages.

Plan C: International packages are taking a huge amount of resources in regional airport areas such as Boise ID. I would try to increase domestic production using slots currently taken up by international packages at smaller airports. For example right now Boise to Manila 2 x 4409.... who is going to get them?

And with the time clock ticking, there isn't enough time to scour the country for 2 here 1 there maybe 3 over here to gather them all up to MAYBE fill a plane that can actually fly that distance.

I think the system is fantastic, don't get me wrong, but it still needs a little tweeking as we find where the high volume use areas are so operators of smaller freighter aircraft like the 700C are not left out and flying for peanuts with generic only cargo. There is a good possibility we under estimated the volume FSAirlines VA's can move with dedicated freighters as this seems to be very popular. Perhaps it's just a fad and will run it's course as the freight dries up and the big money runs are only grabbed by a few, leaving other VA's to scrap their freight only operations and go back to hauling pax.

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