Ionathan Airlines B744 Fuel Burn Issue...

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:55 am

Hey, I was just browsing around in the Database, since I was wondering about the Zero Fuel exploit, and trying to get a feel for how many people used it.

But then I stumbled on this.

http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... db&id=1510

Now you flew 5000 miles, and burned: 76553.4 Lbs of Fuel. Now thats impossible for any real world airliner.

Yet:
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... db&id=1502
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... db&id=1503 <<--68,000lbs of fuel for 5000nm. Even with a tailwind jetstream, thats ridiculous for a 747.
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... db&id=1514

For Comaprison, here's one of your other pilots:
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... db&id=1499
3800 miles, and 100,104.4 lbs burned, thats a bit more reasonable.

And A Wardair flight (in A B744)
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... db&id=1511
Now I'm new to the 747, so maybe I wasnt the most fuel effiecient, I cruised a .85 mach @ FL370, but my burn over 3000nm was: 105,164.4 lbs

Now, I can only come to the conclusion that your Model has been edited to not burn the correct amount of fuel. This would also explain how you can make 161 million on one flight. What model are you using? Perhaps FLYnet isnt reading its fuel tanks correctly, but you must admit that no 747 could ever fly 5000nm on 75 000 lbs. A fully loaded 757 carries max 75000lbs of fuel, and its engines are very fuel efficient, and it only has two of them, and it can barely make 3000 nm.

Anyways, an explanation would be nice.

Cheers,

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:10 am

Are you saying I have intentionally edited the model?

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:32 am

The answer you want, is that I am using different models apart from the default and the posky and noone can quarantee the correctness of what is downloaded. I assume this makes it clear.

I did not like your statement about modified model so I have some questions for you as well.

You have numerous pireps where you have completed trans-atlantic flights in minutes or a couple of hours yielding much money with fuel consumption of minutes instead of 10 hours. Is it slewing or something else? Here are examples:
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... =db&id=568
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... =db&id=567
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... =db&id=741
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... =db&id=828

Also, how did you manage to achieve such low fuel consumption to the following pireps for that long flights? In some cases B763s burned as less as a Cessna. Again, these are examples.
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... =db&id=645
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... =db&id=787
http://flynet.en-studios.de/index.php?l ... =db&id=826

Anyways, an explanation would be nice.

Cheers

P.S. You have made more than 190 millions in one of the linked pireps above. I don't understand why it looks weird to you when someone else makes 161 millions.

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:31 am

Ionathan, my Pireps have already been explained here http://flynet.en-studios.de/forum/viewt ... nge+pireps

Those pireps are also over a month old, the last one being from Jan 21st.

Note my current Pireps, it does not happen. Ever. Because my client has not crashed, yet, since Konny made the improvements. Neither do I fly with not enough fuel.

Your pireps however, are current. The model you fly is probably the problem, but you still havnt said which model you fly. It obviously isnt burning enough fuel. Matthew also agrees with my analysis, that something is fishy. Yes, you can't guarantee the correctness of a model, no one can, but you can at least ensure it bears some semblance to reality.

Cheers,

Post script: At first I thought you did edit the model, but I figure its just some messed up model from avsim or something, which is why I wanted to know which one you used. I only know of (freeware) meljet and Posky.

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:39 am

Ah, if you don't mean that I have edited the model, I guess I will keep my horses at the stable for tonight. However all these, your past pireps, the inaccurate models, some people flying with unhlimited fuel makes someone think about FlyNet's economical system. Do you get what I mean?

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:45 am

Here are my current PIREPS since the client last crashed on me, on JAn 21st.

CYOW EGLL Mar 01, 02:14 416 2890nm Justin Martin 60.275.000v$
EGLL CYOW Feb 28, 16:16 416 2890nm Justin Martin 52.813.000v$
CYOW EGLL Feb 28, 07:14 416 2890nm Justin Martin 27.261.000v$
KIAD CYOW Feb 27, 23:04 240 392nm Justin Martin 19.938.000v$
CYOW KIAD Feb 27, 19:16 240 392nm Justin Martin 11.123.000v$
KMIA CYOW Feb 27, 07:01 335 1195nm Justin Martin 47.739.000v$
CYOW KMIA Feb 27, 03:05 335 1195nm Justin Martin 18.016.000v$
EGLL CYOW Feb 27, 00:18 335 2890nm Justin Martin 69.250.000v$
CYOW EGLL Feb 26, 20:24 335 2890nm Justin Martin 55.337.000v$
EHAM CYOW Feb 26, 06:23 335 3044nm Justin Martin 73.985.000v$
CYOW EHAM Feb 26, 03:22 335 3044nm Justin Martin 52.404.000v$
EGLL CYOW Feb 25, 16:09 335 2890nm Justin Martin 65.858.000v$
CYOW EGLL Feb 25, 05:11 335 2890nm Justin Martin 40.132.000v$
EHAM CYOW Feb 25, 02:35 335 3044nm Justin Martin 33.905.000v$
CYOW EHAM Feb 24, 20:59 335 3044nm Justin Martin 100.098.000v$ <<-- Entered in Fuel, but FLYnet input my fuel as 40 000 lbs, not the 110 000 I wanted, so I activated the unlimited fuel, flew the flight, and accepted that I would have run out of fuel. i only did this because as of yet, you can not alter the fuel load you want after you input it once.
EGLL CYOW Feb 24, 19:14 335 2890nm Justin Martin 68.656.000v$
CYOW EGLL Feb 24, 06:34 335 2890nm Justin Martin 51.784.000v$
CYGK CYOW Feb 23, 23:10 50 77nm Justin Martin 2.790.000v$
CYOW CYGK Feb 23, 22:05 50 77nm Justin Martin -2.272.000v$
KIAD CYOW Feb 23, 20:25 240 392nm Justin Martin 20.520.000v$
CYOW KIAD Feb 23, 16:37 240 392nm Justin Martin 2.386.000v$
EDDF CYOW Feb 23, 04:55 370 3234nm Justin Martin 18.195.000v$
CYOW EDDF Feb 22, 21:59 370 3234nm Justin Martin 31.654.000v$
KIAD CYOW Feb 22, 20:34 240 392nm Justin Martin 20.520.000v$
CYOW KIAD Feb 22, 04:48 240 392nm Justin Martin 12.346.000v$
EHAM CYOW Feb 21, 23:19 335 3044nm Justin Martin 63.463.000v$
CYOW EHAM Feb 21, 16:30 335 3044nm Justin Martin 50.469.000v$
EDDF CYOW Feb 21, 05:33 335 3234nm Justin Martin 68.378.000v$
CYOW EDDF Feb 20, 21:45 335 3234nm Justin Martin 54.382.000v$
EGLL CYOW Feb 20, 20:08 335 2890nm Justin Martin 73.632.000v$
CYOW EGLL Feb 20, 17:57 335 2890nm Justin Martin 45.413.000v$
CYOW CYUL Feb 17, 22:29 50 82nm Anthony ImBoden -1.792.000v$
EGLL CYOW Feb 08, 20:28 335 2890nm Justin Martin 78.014.000v$
CYOW EGLL Feb 08, 05:45 335 2890nm Justin Martin 34.523.000v$
EGLL CYOW Feb 07, 17:28 335 2890nm Justin Martin 84.006.000v$
CYOW EGLL Feb 06, 00:17 335 2890nm Justin Martin 34.523.000v$
EGLL CYOW Feb 05, 01:05 335 2890nm Justin Martin 92.702.000v$
CYOW EGLL Feb 04, 19:13 335 2890nm Justin Martin 34.523.000v$
CYEG CYYC Feb 02, 22:29 335 133nm Justin Martin 20.804.000v$
CYYC CYEG Feb 02, 15:35 335 133nm Justin Martin 14.034.000v$
KIAD CYOW Feb 02, 06:09 160 392nm Blaise McGovern 1.188.000v$
KLAS CYYC Feb 01, 23:47 240 905nm Justin Martin 29.592.000v$
CYYC KLAS Feb 01, 19:53 240 905nm Justin Martin 4.204.000v$
CYEG CYYC Feb 01, 18:01 335 133nm Justin Martin 20.804.000v$
CYYC CYEG Feb 01, 05:23 335 133nm Justin Martin 17.447.000v$
CYOW KIAD Feb 01, 04:17 160 392nm Blaise McGovern 4.615.000v$
CYWG CYOW Feb 01, 03:38 160 913nm Blaise McGovern -4.672.000v$
KSFO CYYC Feb 01, 03:21 335 886nm Justin Martin 40.256.000v$
CYYC KSFO Jan 31, 22:16 335 886nm Justin Martin 24.783.000v$
CYXY CYYC Jan 31, 05:51 160 907nm Justin Martin 11.762.000v$
CYYC CYWG Jan 31, 04:23 160 644nm Blaise McGovern 14.350.000v$
KRNO CYYC Jan 31, 03:47 160 739nm Blaise McGovern -8.527.000v$
CYYC KRNO Jan 31, 03:13 160 739nm Blaise McGovern 13.047.000v$
CYWG CYYC Jan 30, 23:58 151 644nm Blaise McGovern 15.765.000v$
CYYC CYXY Jan 30, 21:41 160 907nm Justin Martin 12.022.000v$
CYBR CYWG Jan 30, 21:08 48 105nm Blaise McGovern 2.808.000v$
CYWG CYBR Jan 30, 20:20 50 105nm Blaise McGovern 1.818.000v$
KSFO CYYC Jan 30, 18:26 335 886nm Justin Martin 40.361.000v$
CYYC KSFO Jan 30, 04:58 335 886nm Justin Martin 24.211.000v$
KMSP CYWG Jan 30, 04:43 160 344nm Blaise McGovern -15.054.000v$
KSFO CYYC Jan 30, 02:59 334 886nm Justin Martin 40.415.000v$
CYWG KMSP Jan 30, 02:56 153 344nm Blaise McGovern -22.461.000v$
CYEG CYWG Jan 30, 02:16 160 642nm Blaise McGovern -11.293.000v$
CYWG CYEG Jan 30, 01:44 160 642nm Blaise McGovern 6.526.000v$
CYYC KSFO Jan 30, 00:03 335 886nm Justin Martin 23.967.000v$
CYEG CYYC Jan 29, 22:40 335 133nm Justin Martin 20.804.000v$
CYYC CYEG Jan 29, 19:36 335 133nm Justin Martin 17.433.000v$
CYEG CYYC Jan 29, 01:36 335 133nm Justin Martin 20.804.000v$
CYYC CYEG Jan 28, 21:32 335 133nm Justin Martin 16.988.000v$
CYEG CYYC Jan 28, 17:24 335 133nm Justin Martin 20.804.000v$
CYYC CYEG Jan 28, 01:58 335 133nm Justin Martin 16.502.000v$
CYEG CYYC Jan 27, 19:00 335 133nm Justin Martin 20.804.000v$
CYYC CYEG Jan 27, 18:22 335 133nm Justin Martin 14.034.000v$
CYOW CYYC Jan 26, 22:20 240 1556nm Justin Martin 34.537.000v$
CYYC CYOW Jan 26, 17:24 240 1556nm Justin Martin 18.196.000v$
CYEG CYYC Jan 26, 15:46 160 133nm Justin Martin 9.936.000v$
CYYC CYEG Jan 26, 05:46 160 133nm Justin Martin 6.189.000v$
CYEG CYYC Jan 26, 00:06 160 133nm Justin Martin 9.936.000v$
CYYC CYEG Jan 25, 21:33 160 133nm Justin Martin 6.172.000v$
CYEG CYYC Jan 25, 18:52 160 133nm Justin Martin 9.501.000v$
CYYC CYEG Jan 25, 07:01 160 133nm Justin Martin 6.552.000v$
CYVR CYYC Jan 25, 04:48 160 371nm Justin Martin 12.013.000v$
CYYC CYVR Jan 24, 22:54 160 371nm Justin Martin 7.174.000v$
CYEG CYYC Jan 24, 21:13 160 133nm Justin Martin 9.936.000v$
CYYC CYEG Jan 24, 15:44 160 133nm Justin Martin 7.722.000v$
CYEG CYYC Jan 24, 06:34 160 133nm Justin Martin 9.936.000v$
CYYC CYEG Jan 23, 22:50 160 133nm Justin Martin 2.885.000v$
PHNL CYYC Jan 23, 19:36 269 2718nm Justin Martin 26.594.000v$
CYYC PHNL Jan 22, 23:24 269 2718nm Justin Martin 50.163.000v$
CYVR CYYJ Jan 22, 16:10 50 34nm Justin Martin 2.520.000v$
CYYJ CYVR Jan 22, 03:51 50 34nm Justin Martin 2.520.000v$
CYVR CYYJ Jan 22, 01:34 50 34nm Justin Martin 2.520.000v$

I have made my Pireps completely transparent, anyone may look for a discrepancy, I believe my record speaks for itself Ionathan. 92 FLights, of Which one appears out of order. And I explained why.

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:48 am

Ionathan wrote:Ah, if you don't mean that I have edited the model, I guess I will keep my horses at the stable for tonight. However all these, your past pireps, the inaccurate models, some people flying with unhlimited fuel makes someone think about FlyNet's economical system. Do you get what I mean?

I understand completely, we have discussed fuel at length, but for now, we have to rely on an honour system. Until the client is upgraded, we just have to trust that everyone is putting in the correct amount of fuel, and that theyre making an effort to see that the fuel burn is accurate on their model.

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:48 am

Why are you pasting your pireps? Did I say they are not transparent? Anyone can see anyone's pireps in FlyNet. I just did not understand your last message. I was refering to the status of the economy system in FlyNet.

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:53 am

I just wanted everyone who read the forum to know that despite the issues I had in the past, which I openly aknowledge, I am not hiding anything (thus transparent) I did it because FLYnet is an honour system, and a)I'm honourable, and b) People can make money without cheating. Basically I want to show my integrity, and thus, I posted my Pireps since Jan 21st.

But what model are you using?

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:57 am

A freeware model which I have downloaded in the past I don't remember where from. In many flights I have used the default and the POSKY. Happy?

P.S. All people are honourable and I know better than most you can make money withut cheeating. Are you implying anything specific with that statement about honour and cheating?

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:58 am

I won't press the issue, it is an Honour System after all. I just found it a bit disconcerting since it was your post about how you were checking to see who flew zero fuel flights that led me to this discovery.

But anyways, whatever.

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:06 am

Zero fuel and inaccurate models are two radically different things but you should use the word "honour" with special care when you refer to other people. I assume you did not imply anything and I will close the case here.

Post by **cmdrnmartin** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:59 pm

To clarify to anyone reading this:

Ionathan and I have been discussing (not attacking) each other in PMs, and the final agreement was that for the sake of FLYnet, and the future gold release (not beta) Ionathan will fly the default 747 in FS9.

Many of us have made mistakes, including myself, and part of being honorable is admitting them. Ionathan has done this. Unfortunately this thread makes it seem like we were at each others throats, but we were not, other than perhaps a language misunderstanding, as English is not our first language. But to everyone, please try to keep FLYnet balance, we have exposed exploits in the system, and Konny is relying on all of us not to use them, to keep the system balanced. If you notice discrepancies, notify the person through the message system first (a step, i admit, I should have done), and please try to be civil.

In anycase, this 'dispute' was not one, and has been resolved to both my, and Ionathans satisfaction.

Cheers

Ionathan · Post by **Ionathan** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:15 pm

I want to add that as I never check the remaining fuel from previous flights (I just put in the fuel needed for the booked flight) I was not aware of how inaccurate was the specific B744 model which has been used only for the latest 4-5 flights. In all other B744 flights flown by ANY Ionathan Airlines pilot the default or the POSKY models have been used.

As it concerns the "dispute", I have to say there is no dispute. Sometimes, fast reactions and specific phrases (or their interpretation) cause frustration and tension. After cmdrnmartin's clarification, I consider the issue closed.