Strange PIREPS (Wardair??)

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Strange PIREPS (Wardair??)

Post by MChristof » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:15 am

Very strange reports from Wardair. I don't know if it is related to other airlines as well but I could not see anything similar in anyone else. This can't be right.
Justin, You either have extremely unrealistic fuel burned and/or extremely short flight times. This concerns most of your flights.

For example: ... =db&id=884
Flown by B738, 371nm in 2 minutes. No way.
Mod: This is from crossing a time zone line and having my Flight SIm Load Pacific time, causing all sorts of Hiccups. My actual Flight time, as logged by flight sim, was 1 hour and a 2 minutes. I crossed the line, and so landed at just about the time I took off, giving this erroneous reading. I've also had Ottawa to London FLights laqst 17 hours. Note that Fuel Burn was in acoordance with distance flown.

Then ... =db&id=828
B773 for 5733nm distance in 3,2h (???) and burned only 3664Kg (???)
Mod: For these three, See Explanation Below about Client Crashing
Then the other direction flight ... =db&id=826
B773 for 5731nm again in 21h (too much) but only 1160Kg (???)

Then: ... =db&id=809
B763 for 3792nm burbned only 928Kg (less than a Cessna !!!!)

As said it is a very extended phonomenon in your flghts only and can't be due to the models as I have linked above PIREPS flown with three different aircrafts but these are not the only ones. Most of your flights are such. I hope it is a problem but in any case I think Konny should take some investigation and action as everyone else flies with normal fuel burn and times spending hours for a flights which for you seems it took 2 minutes.

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Post by cmdrnmartin » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:36 pm

Ah yes, well let me begin to explain some of these.

I've crossed the International date line, and this causes some problems with FLynet, which, as far as I know, reads only the time! This means that while I may have been airborn for a lot of hours, the client reads it as very short. Both Big Q and myself have noticed this. Also, time zones and compression cause interesting things to happen on my PC, as I have flights sim read the time from my PC. I'm trying to figure a workaround, but its not easy.

Now, fuel burn: I flew everyone of those flights, some in real time, and the client crashed on me. I did not like losing all this valuable time and profit, (12 hours only to not have the client record my landing= grrr!) So I flew them again, and to prevent a client crash, moved the aircraft. You will notice throughout numerous posts that i've been trying to figure out whats wrong with my PC that gives me these problems.

Now, as to your statement that this concerns most of my flights:

I have, at last count 234.5 Hours recorded by the Client. So obviously ive been in the air for 234.5 hours, Minimum. At an average speed of 450knots, thats: 105525nm flown. (Of course, i have hours on slower aircraft, and hours on faster aircraft, but mostly, my time and distance makes a fair deal of sense) As I said, I flew all of my flights once, and if it crashed, I flew them again and moved the aircraft. So I should have closer to 290 hours. (And less money, probably 2000 million less)

Look at my recent flights, you've pointed out specifics (and I've explained them), but in the broader view, you'll see that my flights are done legally. I've looked at other airlines too, and I've noticed that people who have unlimited fuel turned on in their FS only putting 1000lbs into a plane for a 5000nm gap. People will abuse the system, and if you read about the anti cheat system, Konny is developing a way to make sure that it can not be done.

So to sum up: Yes, you are correct that some of my Pireps are out of whack. Two Reasons: Long Haul Date changes, and Client Crashes. I have flown every one of my flights listed.

My recent Flight Log
CYYC CYEG Jan 25, 07:01 160 133nm Justin Martin 6.552.000v$
CYVR CYYC Jan 25, 04:48 160 371nm Justin Martin 12.013.000v$
CYYC CYVR Jan 24, 22:54 160 371nm Justin Martin 7.174.000v$
CYEG CYYC Jan 24, 21:13 160 133nm Justin Martin 9.936.000v$
CYYC CYEG Jan 24, 15:44 160 133nm Justin Martin 7.722.000v$
CYEG CYYC Jan 24, 06:34 160 133nm Justin Martin 9.936.000v$
CYYC CYEG Jan 23, 22:50 160 133nm Justin Martin 2.885.000v$
PHNL CYYC Jan 23, 19:36 269 2718nm Justin Martin 26.594.000v$
CYYC PHNL Jan 22, 23:24 269 2718nm Justin Martin 50.163.000v$ <--No Client Crash (Yay! This is what I want my long hauls to be like!)
CYVR CYYJ Jan 22, 16:10 50 34nm Justin Martin 2.520.000v$
CYYJ CYVR Jan 22, 03:51 50 34nm Justin Martin 2.520.000v$
CYVR CYYJ Jan 22, 01:34 50 34nm Justin Martin 2.520.000v$
VHHH CYYC Jan 21, 23:17 370 5733nm Justin Martin 197.103.000v$ <---Client Crashed
CYYC VHHH Jan 21, 19:27 370 5733nm Justin Martin 173.432.000v$ <-Client Crashed
CYYJ CYVR Jan 21, 19:01 50 34nm Justin Martin 2.520.000v$ <Had leftover fuel from previous flight
CYVR CYYJ Jan 21, 17:16 50 34nm Justin Martin 2.520.000v$ <Had leftover fuel from previous flight
CYYJ CYVR Jan 20, 19:31 50 34nm Justin Martin 865.000v$ <--Filled FOkker 50 with Extra Fuel
EGLL CYYC Jan 20, 17:33 255 3792nm Justin Martin 99.542.000v$ <--Client Crashed
CYYC EGLL Jan 20, 15:40 260 3792nm Justin Martin 67.939.000v$ <--Client Crashed
CYVR CYYJ Jan 20, 15:15 50 34nm Justin Martin 2.520.000v$ <Had leftover fuel from previous flight
CYYJ CYVR Jan 20, 05:42 50 34nm Justin Martin 2.520.000v$ <Had leftover fuel from previous flight
CYVR CYYJ Jan 20, 04:42 50 34nm Justin Martin 2.520.000v$ <Had leftover fuel from previous flight
CYYJ CYVR Jan 20, 04:05 50 34nm Justin Martin 999.000v$ <--Filled FOkker 50 with Extra Fuel
EGLL CYOW Jan 19, 21:09 269 2890nm Justin Martin 76.262.000v$ <--Client Crashed
CYOW EGLL Jan 19, 06:08 269 2890nm Justin Martin 76.262.000v$ <--Client Crashed
MMUN CYOW Jan 18, 19:17 240 1561nm Justin Martin 41.040.000v$ <--Client Crashed
CYOW MMUN Jan 17, 21:30 240 1561nm Justin Martin 24.040.000v$ <--Client Crashed
EGLL CYOW Jan 16, 20:47 269 2890nm Justin Martin 75.487.000v$ <--Client Crashed
CYOW EGLL Jan 16, 05:22 269 2890nm Justin Martin 52.101.000v$
CYYC CYOW Jan 15, 17:53 240 1556nm Justin Martin 24.332.000v$
CYYZ CYYC Jan 15, 02:53 240 1454nm Justin Martin 30.739.000v$
CYYC CYYZ Jan 14, 16:31 240 1454nm Justin Martin 20.565.000v$
RKSI CYYC Jan 08, 21:27 370 4618nm Justin Martin 115.114.000v$ <---Client Crashed
CYYC RKSI Jan 06, 22:53 370 4618nm Justin Martin 0v$ <--Konny Moved my plane for me, because my CLient Crashed, Notice the 0 Profit.
CYOW CYYC Jan 05, 23:57 240 1556nm Justin Martin 9.218.000v$
EGLL CYOW Jan 05, 17:49 269 2890nm Justin Martin 34.506.000v$
CYOW EGLL Jan 05, 05:56 261 2890nm Justin Martin 37.725.000v$
KIAH CYYC Jan 04, 20:49 240 1521nm Justin Martin 28.879.000v$
CYYC KIAH Jan 04, 06:47 240 1521nm Justin Martin 17.235.000v$
CYYZ CYYC Jan 04, 01:51 240 1454nm Justin Martin 24.717.000v$
CYYC CYYZ Jan 03, 22:33 237 1454nm Justin Martin 10.611.000v$
EHAM CYYC Jan 03, 06:58 223 3875nm Justin Martin 90.516.000v$
CYYC EHAM Jan 03, 05:03 197 3875nm Justin Martin 77.731.000v$
EGLL CYYC Jan 03, 02:58 269 4263nm Justin Martin 98.218.000v$ <--Client Crashed
CYOW EGLL Jan 02, 22:08 269 3010nm Justin Martin 52.083.000v$
CYYC CYOW Jan 02, 04:18 240 1569nm Justin Martin 30.161.000v$
CYOW CYYC Jan 02, 00:37 240 1569nm Justin Martin 14.055.000v$
EGLL CYOW Jan 01, 20:23 269 3010nm Justin Martin 48.334.000v$

I could continue, but you see the pattern here right? Notice all those Domestic Hops? No problems really on those. So yes, I do take offense to you saying its most of my flights. But, looking at my track record, I'd say I'm on the straight and narrow, Calgary to Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver. Vancouver to Victoria. And I've flown every flight. If I had no crashes of the CLient, I'd have 200 million less, and 100 Hours more.

Now, take a look at these: ... =db&id=889
Fuel in was the Block Fuel, meaning this was a Gimli GLider. ... =db&id=851
Notice the 14000 Block Fuel, again, Gimli Glider.

I don't like skipping time by moving the aircraft, and I know my fuel burn isn't realistic when I do, but again, with the time I put in to these flights (3 hours most of the time, 6 hours sometimes), to not have the client record my touchdown, its a bit frustrating. Konny is looking at an offline client, where you can upload your flights at a later time, and I wholeheartedly support this, as I believe it will fix the problem. I also Beta tested the anti cheat, because I want it in the Client, currently it doesnt work because great circle routes confuse it.

So to everyone: I apologize for those International Hops with unrealistic stuff, i literally have a Checklist on my kneepad, full of things to try to keep the client from crashing. I restart my computer before any flight, I use the windows key, never ALT-TAB to go see the client. I wait until the client is not transmitting (i can tell with zonealarm) before i maximize it from my toolbar. I don't go into time compression more than once, and never on a descent (as it seems to muck it up). And I need to check the client evry 500nm of flight. It's very touchy, but doing that I get no crashes (yay!) on about 50% of my flights over 2.5 hours long. See my CYYC to PHNL, thats without the client crashing. Again, Apologies all around.

There's also another exploit I discovered when I thumped a Boeing down at about 300 ft/min, if the plane bounces, FLYNet uses the last touchdown data, thus, my 300 was changed to 49 ft/min.
Last edited by cmdrnmartin on Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by cmdrnmartin » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:09 pm

I would also like to add to my previous post:

I am not trying to gun ahead, or gain an unfair advantage. Most users on this board know me because I am very active here. Most ANTARES members have either bought a plane from me, or leased from me, and know me to be very fair, and hopefully nice. I put outside time into my airline, creating advertising campaigns, posters, videos, and maintaining the Airline's website. I don't want to scale any rankings board on FLYNet, I formed the ANTARES Alliance because I wanted to bring a realistic and fun experience to FlYNet, to build community among the Users. I want to see the other alliance, Daedalus, get off the ground, so that there can be a friendly rivalry between us, and adding another dimension to FLYNet. I supply pictures of Aircraft to add to the database, and I personnallly have researched and added more than a dozen planes to the database, as well as correcting numerous others entries. Usually, if there is a problem, I am the first to offer help, and I enjoy giving long, detailed, and thourough explanations to people who need it. And client crash doesn't always equal moveing the plane. My last flight CYYC to CYEg, the client didnt record takeoff, so i restarted my PC, and tried again, it worked that time and I flew the flight perfectly. So, I guess Im just saying Im not some 8 year old who wants to cheat to win. 8)

And again, every time my aircraft got moved by me, in FS, I had already flown the flight, but not had it credited towards my airline. I hope that everyone here can see and understand that, and also point to the fact that I fly far more domestic short hops, at small profits, than I do longer ones. My flight rating speaks for itself, at close to 97%, I fly well, and safely.

So to end (because I know everyone is tired of reading all this) Apolgy, hope for understanding, and hope for a cleint that doesnt crash on me (since I think my wireless conection is causing the problems, an offline client would be perfect.)


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Post by Ionathan » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:34 pm

Hello Justin,

Here is a word from another active FlyNet member. I don't doubt your word that the client crashed etc. It is not a matter of how many hours we do fly or how much time we have in here or how popular each of us has become as I don't believe any of the above add or reduce someone's importance. Ok, you moved the aircraft because the client crashed and you did not want to repeat the flight, I understand you have real life (as we all do) and other obligations (as we all do) and you decided it would not be fair to repeat the flight. As I said I don't doubt but even if I believe this, although I have never experienced as many problems with the client as you describe (I guess I do not have your lack of luck) but if someone wanted to accuse you he would have the "evidence" and you could not prove the opposite. Once again, I am not saying that but as they say "the Ceasar's wife not only has to be honest but she must be able to prove it as well". Personally, I believe you are honest but personally I want to be able to prove it for myself. For this reason I had a client crash today and I repeated the flight and it is something I have done in a couple of time I have the same problem.

Well, I just wanted to add my position in a serious, according to my opinion, issue which arised. Well, I believe your wording and I hope I made myself clear on my overall position and I hope the positive opinion of an "opponent" to prevent a "riot" like those I have seen in other forums.

Ionathan Airlines


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Post by cmdrnmartin » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:10 pm

Well, about the only thing besides my word that you could go on would be my flight logs from FS9, but those are user editable, so it goes right out the window. In anycase, i just flew another domestic hop to Calgary, from Edmonton. Short hop, no issues with the client. I actually think that the client is having a problem with my wireless router, its a D-Link WGA 520, I have the newest drivers, but the card can make my computer crash, and if im not active on the internet for 2 hours, it shuts off and never starts until i restart the computer (Which is why the reestart is on my checklist). My Flight Sim never crashes, but someties it cant laod the weather, again, usually after a certain time period. When the client tries to send a periodic update to Konny's server, I think sometimes it gets blocked by the wireless cards stupiity, and then freezes because the wireless driver is malfunctioning. But thats beside the point.

You are absolutely correct, i have no proof, which is why I offered up a list of my PIREPs (not all, but the most recent ones) to show that I do mke every effort to fly correctly, and am not interested in getting a quick boost. I don't want to cancel a flight that keeps crashing on me, because to do so implies a huge hit in the financial area (considering these are 370 pax flights with very expensive tickets, cancelling them costs about 20 000.) So, I can only offer my reputation on FLYNet, both in the air, and on these forum boards, as well as an apology. If someone really, really wants to invalidate the moved flights, I'll take, as I said, about 70~100 hours more logged flight time, and 200 million from my account out. That would balance everything out. Other than that, I'll just add: this is beta testing, although I wasnt expresseedly looking for exploits, the moving of an airplane is one. The time changes are a bug. The Anti-Cheat system works on domestic flights, and I beta tested it, but not on Long Hauls. The aircraft touchdown speed/bounce problem is a bug/exploit. The Zero Fuel option in Flight sim, not being detected by FLYNEt, thats a bug/exploit. We've found these, and Konny is working to get them out. I myself have booked flights to just find bugs, or explore them, see my post on distance from airports for an example of one.

As I suppose I'm trying to prove I didn't move the planes for sheer financial gain, I offer this as a bit of proof: You may analyze my aircraft sales, I purchased aircraft, and then sold them at a heavy dicount (Albatross's 707-320 is a Wardair bird) because I knew I had come by to much money on the flights, so to equalize it, I bought these aircraft, and sold them at a large discount, to give startup airlines a head start to their operations. MBL's CEO will confirm this. ALbatross's CEO will confirm this. BIG Q of Kiwaroo will attest to the fact that I leased him a 777-300ER (valued 220 million) for LESS than 10% of it's total value. MBL will also confirm that there is an ongoing sale of a 757-300, which i purchased at full price, for him, and am selling again at a discount, to give him a leg up. So yes, I knew I had too much cash from moving the flights, and I did what I could to not give myself any advantage over the competition. In total, my estimate is that in discounting all these slaes/leases, I have "burnt" the equivalent of 50~100 million dollars, which is to the best of my knowledge, a substantial sum. I remembered scrraping around with my Fokker 70 and 100, trying to afford a 767-300ER, and i figured I could make others happy by helping them achieve their goals a little sooner.

So yes, my integrity is on the line here, and I can only back it up with my reputation. Thanks for the vote of confidence Ionathan.



Post by BigQ » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:33 am

I'm also with you on this Justin.
As you can see by the sheer number of threads in the "bugs and problems" area started by myself, this is Beta testing, and I get the share of the problems myself. 10 days ago, I was using FS2002 and the keyboard to fly. At that time, 2/3 of my flights (in the week before the transition to FS9 and joystick especially) had to be reflown because the client had not registered my landing. Sure it was maybe a bit easier because I was doing mostly under 1000 nm flights... but just as frustrating. And even the anti-cheat has bumped me back to booked state around my main hub on normal time. I got Konny to transfer my aircraft once as well, as that flight was constantly not registering the landing (I tried 3 times).

Justin, as I have had the experience to "work" with you, you are to me a very honest person just trying to have fun and learn at the same time from Flynet, just like I do. You have my total trust, and I have trust in all people here to make flynet a successful enterprise, as this product has a lot of promising ideas. If someone wants to cheat, I hope that that person feels as bad as when I cheated by panic a while ago. I felt lots of remorse, I wish the same for the next person.

Besides, here's a nice big picture. Justin Martin, as well as myself, is an university student I believe. We both study in very intensive programs, we both are CEO's of relatively big airlines, and to even further my point, have both been solely responsible for the growth of our now very successful airlines. Now does that not show commitment to the Beta? Justin I believe has started flying on flynet around Christmas time, 2005. I started in - geee, I can't remember. The point here is that we both worked very hard. Please, concentrate on more suspicious activities and growth than his. We're both at a point in our real lives (I'm sure) where we both wouldn't waste often precious time on FS to cheat to create the biggest VA's in the world.

Besides, Flynet is supposed to be fun! What fun is it to cheat constantly? not very much...

Just my ideas... I'm quite wired right now, so apologies if I have offended anyone, but I speak from the bottom of my heart saying that I trust everyone on this enterprise to be honest, and I know they are.

Adrien Q

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Post by cmdrnmartin » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:59 am

^ Thanks very much for that post, I do remember the post about the crash, and you wern't crucified for it, heh, i remember how worried you were about it though, just as Im worried about this, because, it is personal integrity at stake. Given the difficulty of Internet anonymity for proving integrity, I really have to rely on the assertions of others in this matter.

The point about fun is better than any argument I can make. I LOVE Flying, why would I ever take away sweet, sweet flying time to just make a quick buck? In all honesty, I've had more fun flying a puny Fokker 50 for 2.5 million a trip, than any of the long hauls, (and yeah, moving the airplane wasnt fun, Im talking about long hauls that succeded, and those that wernt recorded). There's just something about the roar of turboporps, the way the wind swats you around, the entirely hand flown approaches, that makes the Fokker so much fun, and satisfying.

So thank you Adrien for your support.
And yes, I am in University, Aeronautical Engineering, with a minor in biology.


Post by BigQ » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:07 am

[quote="cmdrnmartinAnd yes, I am in University, Aeronautical Engineering, with a minor in biology.[/quote]

Working on a college degree, Pilot training, minor in FlyNET :roll: