URGENT NOTE TO ADMINS

FsNovice · Post by **FsNovice** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:56 pm

Hi Joe from jetdirect here, it appears LEPA has been removed from the database as every route of ours with it in has been deleted, accordign when i change a flight LEPA could not be found in database. If this could be rectified ASAP i would much appreciate i. Thanks

CAPFlyer · Post by **CAPFlyer** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:09 pm

That is because LEPA no longer exists. The ICAO for Palma De Mallorca is now LESJ. This coincides with the renaming of the airport to Son Sant Joan Airport.

See: http://gc.kls2.com/airport/LEPA & http://gc.kls2.com/airport/LESJ

FsNovice · Post by **FsNovice** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:38 pm

oh ok, no worries. If my Fs is still set though to LEPA as Palma de mallorca how can i change this so flynet doesent dock me.

Post by **joefremont** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:56 pm

Chris, there are lots of airports in the system that no longer exist, if we are trying to recreate a historic route having the original airport in the system is important. At the minimum if your going to remove an airport that airlines are using you should at least announce it before hand.

As it is I believe this airport should be restored immediately.

IslandBum · Post by **IslandBum** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:28 am

oh Horror - Does this mean I cant consider using Denver Stapleton or Kai Tak anymore?

The other question is very simple - does Palma still use PMI as the IATA code?

The only part of the aviation world (besides flynet) that still uses ICAO codes is ATC and even they aer gettign away from
it - both IFPS Brussels and IFPS Paris have sita codes rather than AFTN codes even The ARTCC Command center in the US
one - for those who dont know the four letter codes for airport date back to the days of AFTN or AFtan (Armed Forces Telegraphic Network) and if theres anyone else out there that can still read tape punch code by braille you know what I mean
4 letter identifiers are used for Flight Plan filing and NOWHERE else in the industry - Industry standard is IATA code also known as SITA codes as thats where they orginated from hence my question at the begining - IS Palma still coded as PMI?

Cheers

Leif

tall_guy_pete · Post by **tall_guy_pete** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:08 am

Thanks for the post including the original ICAO code

It would have taken me forever to find this within our list

Cheers guys!

tall_guy_pete · Post by **tall_guy_pete** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:08 am

Thanks for the post including the original ICAO code

It would have taken me forever to find this within our list

Cheers guys!

CAPFlyer · Post by **CAPFlyer** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:58 am

Let me clarify something - THE AIRPORT WAS NOT REMOVED. I only changed the ICAO. All flights into the airport should still exist.

Post by **joefremont** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:15 am

But the routes into or out of are all broken because the icao code no longer matches. Hopefully there were no pilots or aircraft at the airport when the code was changed. Even if the official ICAO code was changed, whats more important is what is the airport called in FS9/FSX. If FS9 lists the airport as LESJ then fine, otherwise pilots trying to enter the ICAO code into the planes navigation equipment are not going to find it.

Since everything in the system uses the airports ICAO code as its identifier, changing it without taking proper precautions can corrupt the database.

CAPFlyer · Post by **CAPFlyer** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:36 am

The flights should be based off the database key number that corresponds to Palma, regardless of ICAO or Name. If it's not, then something in the database was changed without telling us.

Also, the ICAO doesn't matter to the client. It uses the GPS coordinates entered for the airport to determine whether or not you landed at the right airport, not the ICAO. Changing the Name, ICAO, or IATA has no effect on how the client determines whether or not you're at the right airport.

BTW- whomever it was that made mention of Kai Tak and Stapleton - they were replaced by physically different airports, so they don't fall under the same category as Palma as it's the same airport, just a new name and ICAO.

Post by **joefremont** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:35 am

Yes, it might have been better if the database used the key number but that's not how flynet was designed, as it is everything uses the ICAO code as the airports ID. In this situation both FS9 and FSX list the airport as LEPA not LESJ. Most flynet pilots will enter the ICAO code for the departure airport as the starting point and the ICAO code of the arrival airport into the GPS, since LESJ is not in either version of FS its just going to cause lots of confusion.

I think the hard and fast rule for flynet is that the ICAO code used should be the one defined in MSFS.

I agree that Kai Tak and Stapleton are different situations.

CAPFlyer · Post by **CAPFlyer** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:49 am

For now, I'll turn the ICAO at PdM back to LEPA. However, there is something that will make it go back - addon scenery.

There will be freeware addon scenery or AFCAD that will be put out eventually that changes the ICAO. When this happens, the ICAO will most likely change to the current one since the "fix" will be easily accessible to all who wish to fly to PdM.

IslandBum · Post by **IslandBum** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:51 am

Chris
It was I, and my point was simply that there are those of us who use Non exsistent airports or odd indentifiers - Even using Avnet I have found errors where Avnet gives a bogus ICAO indentifier for some of the little seaplane landing areas
but as you just pointed out IF the client recognises lat/lon (which Id already assumed as I spend alot of time loading them)
then it shouldnt make any difference WHAT you put in for the identifier - and as I said as industry standard is IATA why not use them and save space. ?

Leif

Post by **Quantum** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:24 pm

Hi,

I had noticed some time ago re the LEPA ICAO change and I agree that we should use the code that FS9 uses. The same goes for airports that have changed their names since FS9 was launched. Lets use the names that are in the airport drop down menus in FS. It's a game, lets keep it simple and stick with the game's database married harmoniously with the FlyNET database. Just out of interest, what airport ICAO is used for 'LEPA' in FSX ?

Rgds

John

tall_guy_pete · Post by **tall_guy_pete** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:39 pm

Cheers guys!

Why did you change it back?

I went and changed all our FPs yesterday night to accomodate for this!

Will it be changed again soon? To the new ICAO code LESJ?

Thanks in advance. Pete