New Feature - Aircraft conversions

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joefremont
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New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by joefremont » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:07 am

Hi Flyers!

Couple new features to announce.

First is that you can now convert some aircraft types into other aircraft types. Say you have a number of passenger aircraft and you would rather have the cargo version, and you know historically they were converted in that way. Well on the planes information page there is now a 'Convert Aircraft' option, its very much like sending an aircraft into maintenance. In fact you are actually required to send it into maintenance as part of the conversion.

You select the type of conversion, the maintenance center that will do the work and press submit. Typically passenger to cargo conversions will be about 10% of the aircraft value, cargo to passenger will be 15-20% of the aircraft value (historically these conversions are less common) and engine upgrades are also 15-20% of the aircraft value. An aircraft maintenance is also done along with the conversion so that everything is in top shape when it enters service in its new form, the maintenance is done at the normal price.

Maintenance centers can reduce the conversion cost by up to 50%, which is also the centers cost of doing the work. If you give discounts for other fleets/partners/airlines the discount is scaled appropriately, so if for maintenance you would charge 25%, for conversions it would be 50%, likewise if you charge 50% for maintenance you would charge 66.7%. I figured conversions involved more parts so the cost of doing the work is more.

I figured cargo to passenger conversions costed more because you have to re-create the nice interior for the aircraft along with the seats and loo. They are not available for all aircraft where passenger to cargo conversions are simply because the normal course of a aircraft life cycle is it starts in passenger service, is converted to cargo service and then is parked out in the bone yard and eventually scrapped. Its very rare for a cargo aircraft to be converted back into a passenger one, although smaller aircraft are converted some times and in the 40's many ex military transports were converted for passenger service.

The second feature is a more minor one. When I review a flight a message will be automatically sent to the pilot showing what happened. In the future I will add an option so I can also send it to the airline management as well but did not think it was needed right now.
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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by joefremont » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:27 am

Note because of this change I have marked the Airbus A321-P2F, and the Boeing 737-800BCF and 747-400BCF as not in production. These were never produced as new aircraft, they were converted from existing aircraft and with this new feature we can do that.
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hajiamini
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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by hajiamini » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:40 pm

Thanks for your good idea :o
Please note that The B767 and B777 could be converted to BCF model via Boeing Company
thanks again
good luck :D
Last edited by hajiamini on Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by magoo043 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:21 am

Awesome, great idea!!
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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by magoo043 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:16 pm

I already converted a aircraft, working well, but i think it can be useful if in aircraft information, it can be added if a aircraft can or cannot be converted.
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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by joefremont » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:28 pm

magoo043 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:16 pm
I already converted a aircraft, working well, but i think it can be useful if in aircraft information, it can be added if a aircraft can or cannot be converted.
Agree, added to the aircraft type information page.
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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by Tower » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:30 pm

So, in case we could not find a particular cargo aircraft, we can buy the plane as a passengers model (in the second hand market), and convert it after that into a cargo one, if available. Is it just like this?
Night navigation is so easy. Just try to maintain the plane between the red light on your left and the green one on your right.
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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by joefremont » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:03 am

Tower wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:30 pm
So, in case we could not find a particular cargo aircraft, we can buy the plane as a passengers model (in the second hand market), and convert it after that into a cargo one, if available. Is it just like this?
Basically yes. There are aircraft like the 747-400BCF that are technically being built now but are the result of conversions as opposed to new builds, if you want one and nobody has any for sale then you have to do the conversion.
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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by sabahassani » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:02 pm

hajiamini wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:40 pm
Thanks for your good idea :o
Please note that The B767 and B777 could be converted to BCF model via Boeing Company
thanks again
good luck :D
any news on this idea? i did some research it looks like boeing does this conversion. 8)

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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by Cat » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:50 pm

FYI, many people (including us) simply change the seating layouts to 0 in some aircraft as the database for the pax model has cargo capacity at ZFW-DOW=Cargo capacity. The database for pax planes will need to be updated to make this conversion application "required" in order to fly max cargo payloads.
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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by joefremont » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:12 pm

Sorry I did add the 767-300BCF you can convert from the 767-300ER and we already had the 777-F you can convert from the 777-200, 777-200 VIP, 777-200ER or 777-200LR
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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by zeke78 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:46 pm

joefremont wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:12 pm
Sorry I did add the 767-300BCF you can convert from the 767-300ER and we already had the 777-F you can convert from the 777-200, 777-200 VIP, 777-200ER or 777-200LR
Joe,

Any chance to add the A330-300 to the list that can be converted? I've included the link to the actual Airbus Industries page with info about. As you can see from the picture, the A330P2F can be done from a -300 model.

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/freighter/a330p2f.html

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Tiago
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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by joefremont » Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:35 am

zeke78 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:46 pm
joefremont wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:12 pm
Sorry I did add the 767-300BCF you can convert from the 767-300ER and we already had the 777-F you can convert from the 777-200, 777-200 VIP, 777-200ER or 777-200LR
Joe,

Any chance to add the A330-300 to the list that can be converted? I've included the link to the actual Airbus Industries page with info about. As you can see from the picture, the A330P2F can be done from a -300 model.

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/freighter/a330p2f.html

Rgds

Tiago
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Sure there is a chance, you just need to find a source that has complete data and submit it, (btw, the page you linked does not have complete data).
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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by zeke78 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:46 am

joefremont wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:35 am
zeke78 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:46 pm
joefremont wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:12 pm
Sorry I did add the 767-300BCF you can convert from the 767-300ER and we already had the 777-F you can convert from the 777-200, 777-200 VIP, 777-200ER or 777-200LR
Joe,

Any chance to add the A330-300 to the list that can be converted? I've included the link to the actual Airbus Industries page with info about. As you can see from the picture, the A330P2F can be done from a -300 model.

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/freighter/a330p2f.html

Rgds

Tiago
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Sure there is a chance, you just need to find a source that has complete data and submit it, (btw, the page you linked does not have complete data).
Hi Joe,

Does this help?

https://www.elbeflugzeugwerke.com/filea ... 2F_web.pdf

In the weights category part, which might be what you need, there's ranges, but we can always choose the upper or lower range.

Also there's the brand new B777-300ERSF conversion. The link below has all the info you need I believe.

https://www.iai.co.il/drupal/sites/defa ... ochure.pdf

Rgds

Tiago

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Re: New Feature - Aircraft conversions

Post by joefremont » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:12 pm

I added the B777-300ERSF but next time, and with the others please submit the aircraft yourself. When you do so you will need all the weights. You can get by with two of DOW, MZFW and Max Payload as you can always calculate the one missing but you will still need MTOW, MLW and Max Fuel weight.

Also remember that when entering range we need range with max fuel where most cargo aircraft list range with max payload. In this case while the PDF says it has a "4,650nm range", the aircraft has the same weights, engines, fuel cap and aerodynamics of the pax version of the 777-300ER, which has a 8400 nm range, I entered 8400 for the range.

While airlines might be interested in range with max payload, we need range with max fuel because we need to estimate fuel usage and we need to know what the aircraft can do with the maximum fuel specified.

Once its in the database we can set up the conversion relationships.
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