Cargo system

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Konny
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Cargo system

Post by Konny » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:54 pm

Hi,

I'm currently working on the new cargo system. Most of the features are prepared now, but what I still need is the basic profit calculation. Does anyone have some ideas how this could be implemented ? I think CAPFlyer is our expert here... :-)
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Post by CAPFlyer » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:14 pm

Most cargo costs are done on a per-mile basis and are based on the cost to operate the airplane that is flying the cargo. I.E, small plane with little cargo on long route = high cost for that package to ship (thus lower demand but still end up making a profit on it).

For our purposes though if we're talking scheduled cargo flights, then basically change the pricing scheme that you use now for passengers from a person (ticket) to a package and calculate revenue based on how many pounds of cargo you can sell for the flight.

For Example, for me to Express Ship a package from Dallas to Denver with FedEx, a 1 pound item costs me ~$30.00. It is 556NM from DFW to DEN (the flight that the package would be on). So, I'm getting charged ~$0.06/mile to ship my 1 pound package.

So, for a 2000 pound payload flown 500 miles, the revenue would be $60,000, so that works out to be about right.

I'd say give the price range as being from $0.02/mile to $0.08/mile per pound and you'll be in good shape. I'll leave the conversion to Kilos up to you. :)
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Post by Ionathan » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:48 pm

As you mention "demand", FlyNet does not simulate demand, at least as far as I know.
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Post by Konny » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:30 pm

Ok, thanks for the info Chris. I'll play around with the values and see if I come to something reasonable.
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Post by CAPFlyer » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:09 pm

Ionathan wrote:As you mention "demand", FlyNet does not simulate demand, at least as far as I know.
I never mentioned demand in the context of FlyNet, only in the context of real-world pricing schemes.

Also, Justin and I have been asking Konny to consider the introduction of a demand structure, so my scheme is designed to work both for a non-demand system and for a demand system. All you need to change is how much freight is available at that location, the price to fly that cargo never changes, the revenue for flying it does as the quantity increases or decreases, independent of the way your price for the total flight changes as it's based on fixed items like distance and weight.
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Post by cmdrnmartin » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:30 pm

I would put forward handling it much like the passenger system currently does, with CApflyers pricing scheme.

Now when I think Cargo, I think of a tick box when you make the flight, one for pax, one for cargo. It simplifies things a great deal, and you can have all cargo nd all pax flights seprate (yes not the way its done real life, but for the purposes of FLYnet, its more than accpetable) So if the pax is selected, profit is determined by seats and % filled. If cargo is selected, it calculates profit based on %KG of usuable capacity used. Again, not reality since volume is just as important as weight, but it will create a simple, workable situation, with minimal changes to the code already in place for pax flights.

For people whove read a lot of my posts, I prefer simplicity and ease of use over mind boggling complexity. Makes it more fun.
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Post by CAPFlyer » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:09 pm

I understand your wish for fun, however the current fields set into the system is for passenger airplanes with their baggage and cargo capacity, not a pure cargo or pure passenger layout. Because of this, you should have 2 configurations for each airplane (possibly 3 if a combi version is available).

The setup should be like this -

Passenger (all pax)
Combi (pax and cargo)
Cargo (all cargo)

You buy one of the 3 types of airplane. Each type has different passenger and cargo capacities, from pure passenger to pure cargo. This way you buy the airplane to do the job you need done. This is realistic and is more simplified than having to choose check boxes.

This way your cargo capacity is setup appropriately for each airplane as it would be difficult to setup in one entry the capacity of the airplane in 3 separate configurations and have the cargo carried priced correctly.

Also, one thing that I think does need to be figured into the equation is that with passenger and combi aircraft you have baggage for each passenger, reducing the available amount of cargo that you can carry. Thus there needs to be a deduction calculated (75 pounds is a good number) for each passenger carried from the total available revenue cargo space on an airplane. This may exclude the ability to carry any cargo, but that's what happens sometimes.
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Post by Konny » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:06 pm

Yep, if there is an aircraft in the database which is capable of 100PAX and 4000kg cargo it means that it can carry them both at once. 0 PAX and 10000kg cargo would be a cargo-only aircraft. At least that's the way the new system will handle it. So if you want different configurations you need to add the aircrafts separately.

Concerning the passengers baggage, I currently calculate with 33 pounds ( 15kg ). Here in Germany the maximum you are allowed to put into the aircraft without an extra charge is 44pounds ( 20kg), but maybe this is depends on the country.
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Post by cmdrnmartin » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:11 pm

Konny wrote:Yep, if there is an aircraft in the database which is capable of 100PAX and 4000kg cargo it means that it can carry them both at once. 0 PAX and 10000kg cargo would be a cargo-only aircraft. At least that's the way the new system will handle it. So if you want different configurations you need to add the aircrafts separately.

Concerning the passengers baggage, I currently calculate with 33 pounds ( 15kg ). Here in Germany the maximum you are allowed to put into the aircraft without an extra charge is 44pounds ( 20kg), but maybe this is depends on the country.
Ooops, I've been entering cargo capacity independant of passengers.

And also, the A310 (which i plan for cargo use) has a freighter variant, but the ICAO code is the same, will this cause issues in the db?
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Post by Konny » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:27 pm

No, aircrafts are identified by their unique database ID.
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Post by CAPFlyer » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:03 pm

Konny wrote:Concerning the passengers baggage, I currently calculate with 33 pounds ( 15kg ). Here in Germany the maximum you are allowed to put into the aircraft without an extra charge is 44pounds ( 20kg), but maybe this is depends on the country.
33 pounds is good in todays climate. I said 75 pounds because around here people still tend to take 3 bags with them on longer trips (1 carry-on and 2 checked) so in total they end up about 75 pounds. That's the problem we ran into with planning luggage weight at Air Wisconsin. During the peak travel seasons, we'd have to factor in more luggage weight because people would be bringing 2 and 3 bags each and they'd be relatively light going out (i.e. coming in from the out station to the hub and then from the hub to their destination) and heavy coming in (with all the gifts and goodies they got while on vacation). This really complicated the job of our load planners, but we always managed to cope with it.

I definitely didn't envy the guys working UAL's International desk though. That had to be a hard one to work because they definitely saw that trend on a daily basis, and it has to be frustrating.
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Post by Konny » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:44 pm

Ok, with the new 0.5b the cargo-system is activated now. I don't know if the Per-Mile-Income is ok, so I could need some testing :-)
But remember that you don't get any cargo if the aircraft's specs are not updated in the database ( Cargo capacity ).
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Post by CAPFlyer » Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:51 pm

Thanks for the update Konny.

One question though, this current Cargo system seems to be of the Passenger plane with cargo being carried in the luggage compartments type. Will this be how the Cargo-only system will be handled, or will there be another addition to the system for this?

I'm asking because I need to make sure that I don't go selling off my C208s and buying C208 Cargomasters if the new system isn't ready to handle cargo-only flights.

Thanks!
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Post by Konny » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:32 pm

Actually, I don't plan another addition for cargo-only flights. You just need to make a different database entry for each aircraft type.

According to our current database the C208 can handle 12PAX + 700kg cargo ( Don't know if this is correct ). So, if you want it to be cargo only you need to add another C208 with lets say 0PAX + 1800kg cargo.

And with 0 passengers you also won't loose any space for the baggage.
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Post by CAPFlyer » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:58 pm

That data is correct for the passenger carrying setup for the C208.

Thanks for answering my question.
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