Tourist Flights

CAPFlyer · Post by **CAPFlyer** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:26 am

flightsimer wrote:i dont understand why this was done in the first place. couldnt you just limit the flights that are the same airport to airport, instead of causing everyone else that is doing fair flights to lose profit? and before this i only saw one company even doing that same airport to airport, so dont really understand why it was even done in the first place, since there was only one that i saw even doing it. dont get me wronge i dont think the same airport to airport is fair, but why punish other people that opperate the 747 on the short routes in japan or other places?

this is a game, we should be able to do flights from what ever airport to another airport with any aircraft. just because one airline didnt fly that aircraft on short flights before shouldnt mean that we cant.

Hopefully I can help you understand -

This is a game, but it is also about having a degree of realism. How is it realistic to have a 747-400 flying a flight where in the real world the biggest plane on the route is a 737? Or, how is it realistic to allow people to fly a 747-400D from Dallas-Fort Worth Int'l to Alliance Airport, TX (a distance of just over 35 miles) and not penalize them? (not saying anyone's doing it now, but it has happened in the past)

The vast majority of pilots on this system are looking for flights that are fun and at least semi-realistic. They're looking for flights that they could see if they went to the airport in real life, not a bunch of super-mega jets flying into tiny little airports that weren't ever intended to support such large aircraft. We're working to find a happy medium here. Make it semi-realistic but not overly constraining. Make it where you can make a profit but not so easy to do so that you don't have to think a little first. As we move forward, you'll see it become harder to make money and you'll have to compete for the passengers and cargo you get. It's not a system here to give away free money, it's a system to recreate the real-life economic system on a more basic and "relaxed" level where it's still fun but challenging.

Miikoyan · Post by **Miikoyan** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:33 am

That data is for JAL. Is everyone here forgetting that there is ANA too? Why is everyone searching the JAL databse? I know that JAL uses Boeing 767 and 737 on those respective routes. What I also know is that ANA uses Boeing 747-400D on Chubu-Narita, because I HAVE flown in it.

flightsimer · Post by **flightsimer** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:38 am

Miikoyan wrote:That data is for JAL. Is everyone here forgetting that there is ANA too? Why is everyone searching the JAL databse? I know that JAL uses Boeing 767 and 737 on those respective routes. What I also know is that ANA uses Boeing 747-400D on Chubu-Narita, because I HAVE flown in it.

and also if you look at current flights for those airlines, they dont showed flights from say 5, 10 15, etc years ago, so how do you know that they werent used back a few years ago?

Miikoyan · Post by **Miikoyan** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:35 am

Ok, got a pic for JAL Boeing 747-400 (not domestic), still searching in POSKY forum because I saw a post where there were pictures of Boeing 747-400(D?) from Chubu to Narita in ANA.

http://forum.projectopensky.com/index.p ... opic=26362

Post by **joefremont** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:07 am

Miikoyan wrote:That data is for JAL. Is everyone here forgetting that there is ANA too? Why is everyone searching the JAL databse? I know that JAL uses Boeing 767 and 737 on those respective routes. What I also know is that ANA uses Boeing 747-400D on Chubu-Narita, because I HAVE flown in it.

I was looking at JAL because its Japan's largest airline and they have a convenient PDF timetable. I could only find a Palm OS timetable for ANA so I had to wait until I got home to get my old palm pilot out. But as Chris said, the biggest aircraft ANA uses on that route is a 767-300, and based on what they are flying today (January 4th) the other aircraft is a Fokker 50. Add to that the single 737-400 flight that JAL uses and you have three flights and 490 available seats, less than a single 747-400D. Compare that to San Francisco to Los Angeles (294nm) where looking at United, American and Southwest airlines you have 49 flights with 6300 seats and there are at least two more major airlines that fly that route, so much for that being the busiest in the world.

As a historical example in the 70's PSA was doing the LAX to SFO route with 727's, they tried getting some L-1011's to do the same route but found out that it took so much longer to turn around the aircraft due to the longer turn around time that they quit using them less than a year later.

Miikoyan wrote:Ok, got a pic for JAL Boeing 747-400 (not domestic), still searching in POSKY forum because I saw a post where there were pictures of Boeing 747-400(D?) from Chubu to Narita in ANA.

http://forum.projectopensky.com/index.p ... opic=26362

I agree that 747-400's and 747-400D's operate from Chuba and that its a huge busy airport, they just don't use them to Narita. But when you can get a high speed train that will get you from Nagoya to Tokyo in 100 minutes its hard for airlines to compete.

Miikoyan · Post by **Miikoyan** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:57 am

Could you please tell me why then I see a Boeing 74D in this post? http://forum.projectopensky.com/index.p ... opic=26362 Just scroll down to 'Return of the Tamagochi on JA8094!' Please, take your time, it was only around four months back when this picture was taken.

Just a quicknote: JA8094 is used for routes from Narita.

Miikoyan · Post by **Miikoyan** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:42 am

Before: http://flynet.turksim.org/index.php5?st ... 078&p=4583
After: http://flynet.turksim.org/index.php5?st ... 078&p=4583

Would I have to put in a request at the end of the year to have 4 million X number of flights wired to my account?

No seriously, four million dollars is a big amount of money!

Post by **Quantum** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:37 pm

Hi,

You really need to compare like for like. You bought less fuel on the 'before' flight than you did on your 'after' flight. The effect of the extra fuel you bought 'after' is a reduction of @ v$ 2.15 million potential income so your net 'loss', all things being equal, is considerably less than you state. I think things should be kept in perspective and realise that you are still making very handsome profits on your flights even with the reduced number of passengers that you carry. If it caused your flights to become a negative income, again all things being equal, then the complaint would be justified but in the cases pointed out I don't think there is a problem.

Rgds

John

CAPFlyer · Post by **CAPFlyer** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:30 pm

Miikoyan wrote:Could you please tell me why then I see a Boeing 74D in this post? http://forum.projectopensky.com/index.p ... opic=26362 Just scroll down to 'Return of the Tamagochi on JA8094!' Please, take your time, it was only around four months back when this picture was taken.

Just a quicknote: JA8094 is used for routes from Narita.

1) My example is for a flight at the end of February, when they return to "normal" spring operations which typically fly more people than the winter. If they're not running a 747-400D during their normal spring ops, then they most likely won't run it on a regular basis.

2) I see no evidence anywhere in that post that there was a departure from NGO to NRT and return by the same airplane. I have a hard time believing that JA8094 is exclusively used for flights from NRT. For an airline to do that would be prohibitively cost and scheduling prohibitive. They will fly the plane on whatever route will give the shortest turn-around. The use of the world "Return" simply implies that it's been to NGO before. There is no indication of time, but by the use of the exclamation point, it would indicate it's been a while.

3) The 747-400 going from NGO to NRT is most likely a reposition flight for an international leg later that day. It's not uncommon, even by US airlines to reposition an airplane (and fly passengers) on a single leg in a reposition. But according to the JAL schedule, it's not a normally scheduled flight in the next 3 months. As well, looking for evidence on Airliners.net, I only see very infrequent flights by 747-400Ds between NGO and NRT and even more infrequent flights of the international aircraft.

As far as I can tell, the use of the 747-400D is the same as United using a 747-400 on a DEN-ORD or DEN-LAX flight. It's normally flown by a 767 or 777, but occasionally, they put a 747-400 on it to reposition the airplane from DEN to the other airport for a later flight or because they have an unusually high number of passengers wanting to fly so they sub up equipment.

Miikoyan · Post by **Miikoyan** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:48 pm

Fine Fine I will place my Boeing 74D on my Narita-Kansai route.

flightsimer · Post by **flightsimer** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:52 pm

also, chuba is a new airport, what you dont know is if they used it on the old airport.

Post by **joefremont** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:00 pm

Miikoyan wrote:Could you please tell me why then I see a Boeing 74D in this post? http://forum.projectopensky.com/index.p ... opic=26362 Just scroll down to 'Return of the Tamagochi on JA8094!' Please, take your time, it was only around four months back when this picture was taken.

Just a quicknote: JA8094 is used for routes from Narita.

I think they ment to refer to JA8904, which is indeed a JAL 747-400D. Since JAL uses 74D's on its routes between Narita-Sapporo and Chuba-Sapporo its very likely that if it went from Narita to Chuba it did so via Sapporo.

Rather than crying about this small reduction in passangers reducing your revenue, maybe you should find a route thats a little bit longer where the fuel price is cheaper (RJTT->RJOO maybe?)

Miikoyan · Post by **Miikoyan** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:11 pm

Am I being too difficult for you?

Anyways, I did some route changes and placed Boeing 74D on RJAA-RJBB route, while RJAA-RJNN is changed to RJAA-RJGG and the assigned aircraft is Airbus A300-600R.

Problem solved, you can lock this thread now.

flightsimer · Post by **flightsimer** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:17 pm

Miikoyan wrote:Am I being too difficult for you?

Anyways, I did some route changes and placed Boeing 74D on RJAA-RJBB route, while RJAA-RJNN is changed to RJAA-RJGG and the assigned aircraft is Airbus A300-600R.

Problem solved, you can lock this thread now.

why does it have to be locked?

Miikoyan · Post by **Miikoyan** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:28 pm

Just felt like saying it.