Tourist Flights

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Tourist Flights

Post by joefremont » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:32 am

We seam to have had a large number of pilots flying tourist flights that depart and arrive from the same airport. That might be fine if your flying a Cessna, but not a Boeing 767. So until we can come up with a better solution I have have tweaked the passenger formula for very short flights so that the number of available passengers is approximately 10 plus twice the distance (modified by your reputation).

And make sure you fly around for at least 15 minutes or you are likely to have your flight deleted as a cheat.
Last edited by joefremont on Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Miikoyan » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:37 am

So where does the distance limit end? My airline's most profitable route is RJAA-RJNN, which is 172nm.
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Post by joefremont » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:30 am

Doing the math the distance limit would end for the 747-400D at 231 nm, assuming you keep your reputation at 120. The fewer the passengers the aircraft can carry, the shorter that distance.

Certainly we are going to work on this formula to make it more realistic and this is not the final answer.
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Post by Miikoyan » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:45 pm

So if I fly that route...I get how much passengers? Sorry, my brain is not working right now.
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Post by Quantum » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:51 pm

Hi,

You get get 10 pax plus 2 pax per mile (twice the distance). So if you fly 100 miles you will get 10 + 200 (2 x 100 miles = twice the distance) assuming you have a seat capacity and the rep to carry that amount of pax. So if someone does a 'tourist' flight and starts and finishes at the same airport they will get 10 pax only.

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Post by Miikoyan » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:38 pm

Ohhhh now I get it. Thanks.

So 172 X 2: 346 + 10: 376...

That is not fair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Quantum » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:04 pm

Hi,

I think that as long as you are still able to make some profit on the flight then it is OK.

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Post by joefremont » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:06 pm

Miikoyan wrote:Ohhhh now I get it. Thanks.

So 172 X 2: 346 + 10: 376...

That is not fair!!!!!
Actually with your airlines excelent reputation that number gets multiplied by 1.2 resulting in 451. Which I think is very fair given that JAL only uses 734's on that route.
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Post by flightsimer » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:56 pm

joefremont wrote:
Miikoyan wrote:Ohhhh now I get it. Thanks.

So 172 X 2: 346 + 10: 376...

That is not fair!!!!!
Actually with your airlines excelent reputation that number gets multiplied by 1.2 resulting in 451. Which I think is very fair given that JAL only uses 734's on that route.


no i dont think its fair at all. . . yes i agree with same airport to airport, but now you limiting the number of pax for the 747-400D down to 451 when it holds 568, when it was mad to go on short little hops... there wouldnt be any point in using that plane if your still gonna have 100+ seats open.

why isnt the limit just for the same airport to airport. flights from different airports, that wouldnt be a "tourist" flight, that would be a regional flight.

and mike you would only be getting 425 pax on that flight not 451.
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Post by joefremont » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:01 am

They use the 747-400D for shorter routes than a normal 747 but not that short. Going through the JAL time table (downloadable in pdf form from there website) they only domestic 747 routes from Nagoya are to Sapporo and Okinawa, 500 and 700nm away.

There is a point to finding the right sized aircraft to the right route. There were a number of pilots that were flying huge aircraft on very short routes which is not very realistic. Even on flights less than 300nm the time it takes to unload large aircraft and turn it around can cancel out the benefit of its larger size.

This was the most liberal formula we could come up with that would remove the incentive for the obvious abuses but not effect normal flights. If you can find examples of real world flights that this is preventing you from replicating I will be happy to revisit this.
Last edited by joefremont on Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dave Athay » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:08 am

The formula for max pax I get, but I'm still unclear how this relates to ticket price and the number of passengers booked.

For example, by that formula: If I want to do a "sightseeing" flight in a Cessna 172, departing and arriving at the same airport, for let's say 20 mins. Distance is zero, so I get 10 pax plus zero and then multiply the whole thing by 1.2 for having 120 reputation. So, now I have 12 pax scrapping for 3 seats. Does that mean I can raise the ticket price until I only book 2 or 3, or does that mean I'll fill the seats no matter what I charge?
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Post by Miikoyan » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:16 am

Narita-Chubu and Narita-Kansai is arguably the busiest route in the whole world...And before Chubu opened, ANA and JAL operated Narita-Nagoya route with pretty much all aircrafts filled..cant you lower the distance formula so for Boeing 74D its 150NM? Thanks in advance.
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Post by joefremont » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:22 am

Dave Athay wrote:For example, by that formula: If I want to do a "sightseeing" flight in a Cessna 172, departing and arriving at the same airport, for let's say 20 mins. Distance is zero, so I get 10 pax plus zero and then multiply the whole thing by 1.2 for having 120 reputation. So, now I have 12 pax scrapping for 3 seats. Does that mean I can raise the ticket price until I only book 2 or 3, or does that mean I'll fill the seats no matter what I charge?
That would be a good idea, but no. The only time this formula comes into play is when its result is less than the maximum passangers on your aircraft. Since the C172 can only carry 3 pax it is uneffected.
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Post by flightsimer » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:44 am

i dont understand why this was done in the first place. couldnt you just limit the flights that are the same airport to airport, instead of causing everyone else that is doing fair flights to lose profit? and before this i only saw one company even doing that same airport to airport, so dont really understand why it was even done in the first place, since there was only one that i saw even doing it. dont get me wronge i dont think the same airport to airport is fair, but why punish other people that opperate the 747 on the short routes in japan or other places?

this is a game, we should be able to do flights from what ever airport to another airport with any aircraft. just because one airline didnt fly that aircraft on short flights before shouldnt mean that we cant.
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Post by CAPFlyer » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:18 am

Miikoyan wrote:Narita-Chubu and Narita-Kansai is arguably the busiest route in the whole world...And before Chubu opened, ANA and JAL operated Narita-Nagoya route with pretty much all aircrafts filled..cant you lower the distance formula so for Boeing 74D its 150NM? Thanks in advance.
I think that 231NM as a "full-load" is pretty realistic for a 747-400D. There's a reason JAL doesn't fly the 747-400D on their Narita-Nagoya flight - it doesn't make money. Thus they "right size" the route to 737-400s.

"Realistic" can't be subjective. The only reason you complain that it's not fair is because your unrealistic route got shot out of the water and now you actually have to think before putting a big bird on a short flight because you'll loose money.

As Joe said - if you want to know what "realistic" equipment operates on a given route, use the JAL database. On the Narita-Chubu sector, the largest airplane they have scheduled is a 737-400 like Joe said. On Narita-Kansai the only airplane they have scheduled is the 767-300.
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