Using real world airline names....

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vknierim

Using real world airline names....

Post by vknierim » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:34 pm

Hi everyone...

this seems to be an endless story unfortunately. :( The question is, what can be done to solve this problem?
The renaming and or deleting of airlines that do use real world names without official approval does not help in my opinion.
As soon as the list is "cleaned", someone new discovers flyNet (which is good of course), does not read the rules (which is bad), and creates a new VA with a real world name (even worse).

I must admit that I have not searched the forum to check if this topic has been discussed before ( :oops: ) but my proposal to solve this problem would be to check the names of new VAs first, before they get approved and activated.
I know that this would be a lot of work for the admins, but some of it might be handled automatically by a script that compares the names to existing airline names to the new VA that should be created. If a match is found the new VA is rejected. Possible matches (one or more words for example) could be handed over to admins for approval.
If someone wants to use a real world airline name and has the official approval, an admin could create the VA as soon as the letter arrives.

I know that this does not solve all possible problems, but in my opinion a lot of real world names could effectively be removed on flyNet.

Greetings

Volker

Beatsteak

Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by Beatsteak » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:38 pm

Yes, Volker, this could help for some time and it keeps the crew on flynet busy to keep all airlines wordwide updated in their database.

In my case I operate the VA Travel With Friends and I have some pictures from LTU only for showing the special types of A/C which belong to my fleet. I have nothing to do with LTU but the livery is nice. Is that a fact to complain me. If so I have to remove all pictures. Every picture of an aircraft you find will have a symbol or a name on it. It will be hard to find something neutral or with a complete white livery.

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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by CAPFlyer » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:22 pm

Use of pictures is not a violation of the policy.

As for the pre-screening of VAs, this is actually already in progress, however it will not become active until we move operations to the FSAirlines server. In the meantime, we just have to deal with it and periodically clean-out the system. We have a dozen or so airlines on here that have permission, so it's not impossible (nor a lengthy or involved) thing to do. Unfortunately, as we have reiterated several times in the past, in the world we live in, there is a definite possibility of airlines who are hostile to the use of their name, logo, and livery, to issue cease-and-desist orders upon the owners of not only the website, but the owner of the server that this website resides on, and because many of these VA's only exist within FlyNET's structure, Konny, DaKurt, and Fatih have very little legal standing to prove that they were not complicit in the actions of these VA's in their violation of international copyright laws.

I wish it wasn't a problem, but in the last 10 years, dozens of VA's have been shut down and people taken to court by various real-world airlines, and it's not something that we wish to have occur here.
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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by rob hirst » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:58 pm

I agree that it's time consuming for you guy's to trawl throught the many VA's to clear out those violating the rules. Maybe a process of self regulation could work where members flag up those which are not following the rules to help share the workload>

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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by oge978 » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:22 pm

BTW I'm working on a code for the integration project which deals with the airline name to prevent illegal use ...

System will simply check a database of non approved airline names for now and stop working if the integrator VA uses on of them .

For now the check is done once and have no impact on the server / visitor performance but I'm thinking on a more flexiable solution .

Anyway , using real world airline names (and visuals like logo - livery - special signs etc.) is not nessecary for flying BUT most of the VA's and pilots like this . Maybe they gather pilots with the names or maybe this makes them happy (or proud) by trying to simulate a real airline .

Basically name , logo , callsign or livery is not important on "simulating" , it is "you" on the controls of the virtual aircraft not the "logo & name" :)

So from this point using "real names & materials" is just an "eye candy" for the simulation BUT if the real airline provides legal support for the virtual airline (like materials , hosting , training , information , gifts etc.) as a sponsor the basics of pc flying completely changes from "fun" to "mission" .

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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by Safari Air » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:35 pm

yes when a user logs makes an airline with a name of a real airline it will notice it and ask for a new name perhaps?
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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by joefremont » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:36 pm

This is probably something we should build into the main site. So if they enter a name of a real airline they are told so and can enter something else. Just need to get a good list of active airlines.
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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by Safari Air » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:26 pm

i'm sure people would help us with that
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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by CAPFlyer » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:01 am

There may be something we can get from IATA directly in a CSV or Excel spreadsheet that has all registered "common carrier" names on it. I will send an e-mail and see what I can get.
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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by oge978 » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:01 am

Hi Cap,

I tried to get a list from IATA ( for the above mentioned project ) but it is not a complete list ...

As you know some of the airlines are not IATA members and they do not need/want to be :(

So as an idea (after pm'ing with Joe ) I tried to find and search the all countries local authory websites for a list , which is and will be more complete and accurate I suppose .

For example you can not find the IHY Izmir Airlines at IATA but it is on the carriers list of SHM ( Directorate General Of Civil Avation )

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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by CAPFlyer » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:18 am

Well, I found this list -

http://www.aviationoracle.aero/extras/a ... _ghij.html

And there's this -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_codes-All

For $205, you can get a CD of ICAO Document 8585 which lists all issued ICAO 3-letter identifiers, callsigns, and names of Airlines in addition to other groups.

I cannot find any easily accessible listing in a format we can download and integrate, but maybe the guys at the Aviation Oracle can help if you contact them Joe?
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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by flightsimer » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:58 pm

know, what im concerned is about the codes...

u guys arent gonna limit that too are you? when i made my name, North Eastern Airways, i tried NEA, which was wat i wanted, but another person was already using it... but anyways what im getting at, is since i use NAW, (N-from North, AW- from AirWays), there is the possibility that an airline somewhere in the world is also using NAW... i shouldnt, and new airlines shouldnt have to change their code, because a real world airline is using it...
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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by joefremont » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:59 pm

No, I don't think we are going to limit the codes. The consern is trademarks, a companies name and logo are trademarked and companies will often fight to protect them. Codes are not protected the same way.
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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by joefremont » Wed May 14, 2008 11:46 pm

We now have something inplace that tests airline names. I used the list from wikipedia since it seamed pretty complete and is likely to be updated in the future.
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Re: Using real world airline names....

Post by IslandBum » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:33 pm

Hate to be a pain

But it appears someone has registered Hawaiian Airlines and is using their logos

Not good

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