Landing Lights

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AK_Dave

Landing Lights

Post by AK_Dave » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:50 am

Can someone point me to the relevant FAR that requires landing lights be off above 10000 feet? Or for that matter, that requires any use of landing lights at all. I've combed through my FAR/AIM and can't find a thing.

Thanks.

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joefremont
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Post by joefremont » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:58 am

To the best of my knowledge there is no requirement that they be off above 10000 feet. May airlines have policies that they should be off at a certain point to prevent them from burning out prematurely. I believe the reason flynet has the rule is to prevent pilots from just leaving the lights on all the time.
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Post by CAPFlyer » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:04 am

Dave there's not. The "rule" was put into FlyNET to increase difficulty. The rule is that it has to be on below 1000ft AGL and off above 10,000ft MSL. Between the two, the system doesn't care. There have been multiple discussions on its utility being that the use of landing lights varies by aircraft and by operator, but Konny wants to keep it, so we deal with it.
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AK_Dave

Post by AK_Dave » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:18 am

OK. I was going nuts here trying to find the FAA ruling on it, and I can't find any. LOL.

You know, you could also require everyone to fly inverted above 1000 AGL to add difficulty. Haha. I'll keep trying to remember then, but if I keep getting dinged for it I may just be out of here soon. (I'm not a big fan of arbitrary rules).

Thanks for the responses. Appreciate the help.

AK_Dave

AK_Dave

Post by AK_Dave » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:38 am

One more question....at what point after landing can I safely switch off my landing lights? Must I wait till I'm on the taxiway? Must I wait till the gate? Must I have them on until I end the flight in the client?

Thanks again.

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Post by cmdrnmartin » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:43 am

AK_Dave wrote:One more question....at what point after landing can I safely switch off my landing lights? Must I wait till I'm on the taxiway? Must I wait till the gate? Must I have them on until I end the flight in the client?

Thanks again.
Landing Lights:

On before wheels leave the ground, to above 1000ft agl. Off before 10000 asl (this may be changed soon)

On before 1000ft agl, off after wheels are on ground. (If your plane is on the ground, there is no penalty for having them either on or off)
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AK_Dave

Post by AK_Dave » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:02 am

Thanks again, all.

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Post by CAPFlyer » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:44 pm

Dave, it's not an "arbitrary" rule. It is the real requirement of many airlines to have the lights off and there are penalties to the pilots for repeated disregard of company policy. There are also mechanical problems from not operating the landing lights properly as leaving them on too high in altitude (shock cooling) or to fast (if they're retractable, you can bend the retract mechanisms.
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AK_Dave

Post by AK_Dave » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:04 pm

True, but it is not a legal requirement. Also, if a Captain consistently leaves the landing light on until 11000 feet, or 14000 feet, how will the company know? How will his real life reputation decrease by 5%? I mean, would the FLYNet experience really be less enjoyable without the landing lights penalty? And wouldn't 18000 feet make more sense, since that's the beginning of Class A airspace, and since there's no VFR traffic in Class A airspace everyone will be separated by ATC and so no landing light is necessary?

Just a few radical thoughts but someone who's ticked off at getting dinged by the landing light penalty over and over again.

Having said that, I will recant, and withdraw my 'arbitrary' comment. For the record, let me state that I'm not as upset about it anymore either, since the gentlemen above have pointed out to me that I can shut it off anytime I'm over 1000 feet. I had thought it must be on till 10000 and kept missing it as I was busy changing course or talking to ATC etc. Now I just shut it off during the early stage of my climbout and it's no problem.

Oh, I'm not a big some of some of the FAA's rulings and policies either, if that helps. LOL

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Post by CAPFlyer » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:25 pm

FL180 doesn't make more sense. It's too high (shock heating/cooling issues) for one, but also, if you look at the AIM, it only suggests use of landing lights in Class B, C, or D airspace. The airlines don't turn the lights on above or below 10,000 because above that they're outside of that congested airspace. It's just like I never turn off the lights when I'm flying (in real life) until I'm well clear of congested airspace myself.
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AK_Dave

Post by AK_Dave » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:57 am

Yes yes, you're right, of course. LOL I still don't like it cause I forget to do it (although I seem to have gotten a handle on it).

I promise to stop complaining about the lights. :oops:

Now, I need to find some pilots.

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Post by Matthew » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:43 am

CAPFlyer wrote:FL180 doesn't make more sense. It's too high (shock heating/cooling issues) for one, but also, if you look at the AIM, it only suggests use of landing lights in Class B, C, or D airspace. The airlines don't turn the lights on above or below 10,000 because above that they're outside of that congested airspace. It's just like I never turn off the lights when I'm flying (in real life) until I'm well clear of congested airspace myself.
You say that, i was on a flight to Gatwick, and the landing lights were left on to cruise before the captain finally switched them off, i know that as i was sat by the engine

That was a Monarch A321

BFuller

Post by BFuller » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:16 am

FSPassengers has this same similar penalty, so I'm used to it.

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Post by cmdrnmartin » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:53 am

@ Matthew, that might have been icing lights, or something else. Maybe not landing lights, but i can't say for sure.

I was on dash8 recently, and they switched them off the moment we were far enough away from KLAX to do so.
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Post by Matthew » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:50 pm

cmdrnmartin wrote:@ Matthew, that might have been icing lights, or something else. Maybe not landing lights, but i can't say for sure.

I was on dash8 recently, and they switched them off the moment we were far enough away from KLAX to do so.
It was defo landing lights, I have flown enough to tell, Becase usally when were just starting our finals they are switched on, and it lights up the whole engine bbright, and that was the case, for about 35 minutes in flight.

I have also had flight where they havent even been used on take off and climb (well thats easyjet flights i think)

But that could just be the Airlines policy as you said

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